Hybrid

Just some fun to show. Links, pics or movies.

Moderator: minetymenace

Do you think this topic should be on this forum (1 = Yes, 10 = No)

1. Yes
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2.
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3.
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5. Maybe.
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6. Maybe Not
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Total votes: 38

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Hybrid

Post by Sam » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:52 am

Hello from Scotland, I am currently gathering pieces to build a wee special. I headed to Plockton to uplift a B50 chassis but this turned out to be scrap but enjoyed the weekend away with the family in a wonderfull and scenic part of the world.

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p.s. those from the UK that is TV Johns caravan in the background from the program Hamish McBeth

Not sure how you guys will accept this but I have a XT600 motor which I aim to shoe horn into the BSA oif being a twin port hopefully this will be achievable as I read somewhere that the xt500 exhaust hits the downtube. Forks and wheels will be from a Ducati Pantah (leftover from a TT2 build) unless I find some extra spare cash to relace hubs and new alloy rims, but this may still have to be an option depending on chain alignment.

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I found an article / reference elswhere on a suitable swing arm which I see from reading post here he is a member, HPStan (he is the man) the K*wasak* GPZ 750 which I purchased on fleabay for £20 this shall need to be shortened as it is way too long. I also like the idea of redirecting the oil return with the extra feed which I aim to do as well. My aim is to keep it looking like a classic, as for the petrol tank does anyone know if the Triumph Benneville export tank fits the B50/B25 chassis?

Sam

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Re: Hybrid

Post by minetymenace » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:04 pm

<135 to the forum Sam.

So let me get this straight, the one and only BSA part will be a modified frame. I think you will find purists like Stan will have a word or two about the brand T tank you intend to use.
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Re: Hybrid

Post by Sam » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:20 pm

minetymenace wrote:<135 to the forum Sam.

So let me get this straight, the one and only BSA part will be a modified frame. I think you will find purists like Stan will have a word or two about the brand T tank you intend to use.

I was intending on using an A65 export tank which was first choice but they seem to fetch "lots of money" what I have seen so far £400 and not too sure of the Indian offerings, if I do use spoked wheels they would probably be conical hub if the sprocket alignment is off I can gain offset with the laced wheel setup but if good I will use the Ducati wheels. Is Stan a purist !? What I have seen in his photobucket page are a lot of cleaver and easily obtainable mods using other brands. I got the buzz for a big single again after finishing my wee Ducati scrambler this spring

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I found with only being a 250 and with a head wind you were up n down the box to gain any distance I would love a B50 motor but the xt600 only cost £300 with all the ancillaries show me a B50 for that price and I would jump at it but in the long run would cost me a hell of a lot more to bring up to a reliable state. My first bike after my moped was a B25SS thats when you could ride 250s on a provisional but passed my trest quickly and slotted a 5ta into the chassis then a 441 victor. If the modirators find this is not appropriate please feel free to remove I will not be offended.
Last edited by Sam on Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hybrid

Post by minetymenace » Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:31 pm

Your bike, you can do what you like with it, there others who have put jap engines in oifs (Suz Savage amongst others)....can't see the pictures at work, but I'm sure they will be informative to others doing the same thing and if people do complain they could be appeased by moving your topic to another section. So go for it and keep us posted!
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Re: Hybrid

Post by HPbyStan » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:45 pm

I hear that Stan being a purest is an inside joke as I've seen a few mods on his stuff.
Welcome to the forum. From looking at your photobucket pages, I'm betting you can build that anyway you choose.

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Re: Hybrid

Post by Sam » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:23 pm

HPbyStan wrote:I hear that Stan being a purest is an inside joke as I've seen a few mods on his stuff.
Welcome to the forum. From looking at your photobucket pages, I'm betting you can build that anyway you choose.
Are you not that Stan ? I like the look of classics and had a lot of fun riding my Tribsa, have always fancied getting a big single again and when this motor and electrics came my way my mind started wandering. I find the OIF chassis nice and light and handles well. I have a few pieces lying around that needed tidying up, they take up less room on one piece. My aim was to finish off the TT2 I started building before the wee Ducati came along but that will find its time at some point.

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Re: Hybrid

Post by Grayham » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:01 am

With all those B50 engines in Mark Cook, Joe Maxwell, Cheney, Faber and Rickman frames, there must be a lot of original B50 frames left over somewhere.
Someone's got to do something with them. :thumb
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Re: Hybrid

Post by WeirdTim » Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:29 am

Welcome to the board.

You're kind of cheating with that XT600E PUSH BUTTON start engine!

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Re: Hybrid

Post by Sam » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:44 am

WeirdTim wrote:Welcome to the board.

You're kind of cheating with that XT600E PUSH BUTTON start engine!
I shattered my right ancle 5 years ago it was in nine pieces a kickback from a big single would spell "disaster" (the wee Ducati is left hand kick), also £300 for motor and electrics you would probably find it hard to pick up a B25 for that. A friend of mine built and modified a Gold star to electric start (a real one) :lol: very neatly done most would not have picked up on the conversion. I have never been a purist and probably never will, I was at a classic/vintage meet a few weeks ago and listening to comments from people "ah thats not original or the wrong colour for that year" how anal is that!? :roll:

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Re: Hybrid

Post by koncretekid » Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:18 pm

You'll have no complaints from me as I like a special as well as any bike. In fact, I never met a motorcycle I didn't like, er, at least, respect! And someday, I may be a candidate for electric start as well, and if our friend and fellow forum B50 Guru, Beat, doesn't hurry up and develop his, I may be forced to go the same route.

I have 2 B50 race bikes - - kickers removed - - roller start only.

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Re: Hybrid

Post by Sam » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:45 pm

Frame finally arrived, my old B25 chassis.

Image

Not so easy to align everything, will need quite a bit of surgery but I will get there in the end.
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I may have to remove the lower cradle and use the engine as a stress member.

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My intention is to modify the GPZ swing arm to fit the rear mount similar to the XT

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I have ordered up carbs before I remove any more tubes, I shall also jig the frame up before I go much further and use the original swing arm in helping get everything aligned and held in place.
Last edited by Sam on Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Hybrid

Post by HPbyStan » Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:18 pm

Remember that the wheels are NOT aligned on a BSA unit single because the engines weight is way offset to the left. So to make the bike go straight down the road the wheels are also offset to get the engines weight evenly distributed between them. A prime example of this on a road bike are the large displacement Hardly Ablesons. Their engines are W A Y over weighted to the left and on a rainy day the chassis leaves tire tracks almost like a cars. I think you will want the Yammys wheels aligned to make that one go straight without corrections in steering and rider body weight though... Stan

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Re: Hybrid

Post by Sam » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:10 pm

HPbyStan wrote:Remember that the wheels are NOT aligned on a BSA unit single because the engines weight is way offset to the left. Stan
I was not aware of that, I notice on the blue print drawing of the frame that the engine was offset but took for granted that the wheels being in line, when I built my Tribsa everything was aligned (but that was a different engine)

Frame in the jig I will need to make a brace for the top of the headstock and something for the swing arm but that will be sometime next week heading to a music festival for a few days "to chill man" :cool:

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Re: Hybrid

Post by HPbyStan » Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:29 pm

Sam wrote:
HPbyStan wrote:Remember that the wheels are NOT aligned on a BSA unit single because the engines weight is way offset to the left. Stan
I was not aware of that, I notice on the blue print drawing of the frame that the engine was offset but took for granted that the wheels being in line, when I built my Tribsa everything was aligned (but that was a different engine)

Frame in the jig I will need to make a brace for the top of the headstock and something for the swing arm but that will be sometime next week heading to a music festival for a few days "to chill man" :cool:

Image
At one time there was a dealer bulletin about not setting up a BSA single or triple at the same time as the twin because the wheels whilst looking the same didn't interchange. A65 wheels lined up.

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Re: Hybrid

Post by roadplough » Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:56 am

Axles lengths are different too. I prefer my A65 rear wheel in the B50, it's about 3mm less offset to the right than the B50 wheel so actually gives more clearance for a wider tyre since the first restriction when using a B50 wheel for a B50 is not the chain but right side swing-arm tube.

The offset is a compromise in BSA's modular design, of the OIF singles its only the MX model which needs the huge offset for chain clearance and that is only to allow for a worn and loose chain bending sideways and getting broken by passing knobs. The SS model with OE 3.50x18 rear could easily have it's tyre on the centre line.
HPbyStan wrote:the engines weight is way offset to the left. So to make the bike go straight down the road the wheels are also offset to get the engines weight evenly distributed between them.
Stan you once suggested I should be a comedy writer so let me rephrase that for you.. to make the bike go straight down the road the wheels should line up and the engine should be mounted about an inch to the right of its standard location which would put the weight just about on the centre line.
So why is the engine offset to the left :?: :laugh ultimately because the primary drive is outboard of the counter-shaft sprocket.
No such problem using a Yamahaha motor if you don't mind it hanging out the right-hand side a bit. The clearance issue will be more chain to frame than chain to tyre.

Sam, that's an early frame without the gussets in the triangle above the swing-arm pivot. They were prone to breaking the tube just above the pivot plate.
Also the side-stand mount looks bent, the other part likely to break off.

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Re: Hybrid

Post by koncretekid » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:08 pm

HPbyStan wrote:Remember that the wheels are NOT aligned on a BSA unit single because the engines weight is way offset to the left. So to make the bike go straight down the road the wheels are also offset to get the engines weight evenly distributed between them. Stan
So what is the proper procedure for aligning the wheels on a stock B50? I have the motor offset 1-5/8" to the left on my Bonneville bike and with a 5" wide rear tire, the rear wheel is offset about an 1/8" to the right. But, I align the wheels as perfectly as possible and the bike goes straight as an arrow at up to 151.6 mph (just got back from the Loring, Me. meet where I achieved a new personal best!) Maybe I'd go faster if I misaligned the wheels.
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Re: Hybrid

Post by Sam » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:04 pm

roadplough wrote: Sam, that's an early frame without the gussets in the triangle above the swing-arm pivot. They were prone to breaking the tube just above the pivot plate.
Also the side-stand mount looks bent, the other part likely to break off.
Do you have a pic of the later frame at the swing arm pivot ?
I shall probably be removing both bottom cradel tubes back up to the underside of the main spine and forming others to replicate but a little bit further back and splayed 50mm further apart to take the alloy swing arm. Parts arrived when I was away I ordered an A65 export tank from India initial thought it looks good for £160 delivered. No need for a leak test as I have to modify it to get around the oil filler and probably scallop a little out on the bottom to miss the cylinder head.

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Re: Hybrid

Post by minetymenace » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:04 pm

Gusset can be seen in the frame drawing here.
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Re: Hybrid

Post by Sam » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:14 pm

Cheers! just looked at the drawing I have and it shows the gusset which I had not noticed before.

Sam

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Re: Hybrid

Post by Sam » Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:51 pm

Carbs arrived this morning so this gave a better idea of what was to be removed,

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I knew it would fit somehow :lol:

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Re: Hybrid

Post by HPbyStan » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:06 pm

Be careful that you don't scratch the paint. :smile:

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Re: Hybrid

Post by Sam » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:17 pm

HPbyStan wrote:Be careful that you don't scratch the paint. :smile:
If I remove much more I wont have to bother about the paint! :smile:

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Re: Hybrid

Post by beat » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:30 pm

my advise:
remove all exept the steering head.
it will be easiest, - well , the paint needs new then probably....
:oops:

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Re: Hybrid

Post by koncretekid » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:32 pm

Lower frame tubes are now obsolete, anyhow. Just look at any of the new crotch rockets.
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Re: Hybrid

Post by Sam » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:14 am

koncretekid wrote:Lower frame tubes are now obsolete, anyhow. Just look at any of the new crotch rockets.
Tom

I had removed the lower tubes last night, I was intending on using them for a bash plate mount but were snagging the crankcases when trying to position the motor. With everything being so tight I will have to use engine plates at the front.

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Re: Hybrid

Post by Sam » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:38 pm

Front mounts done this afternoon, I have used an original front engine mount but I will change them for dural plates at a later date.

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Re: Hybrid

Post by HPbyStan » Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:41 pm

I wondered how you were going to do the swing arm pivot, good show.

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Re: Hybrid

Post by Sam » Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:55 pm

HPbyStan wrote:I wondered how you were going to do the swing arm pivot, good show.

That is a back loop from an XT that I am using to align everything up, I am going to do something similar but using the GPZ swing arm modified to fit into the rear of the motor.

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Re: Hybrid

Post by minetymenace » Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:07 pm

does that engine have a wet sump?
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Re: Hybrid

Post by HPbyStan » Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:17 pm

minetymenace wrote:does that engine have a wet sump?
I bet it would be pretty tricky getting the wet in there. If it hangs around with that frame very long it will probably start wet sumping just cause,,,,,,

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Re: Hybrid

Post by Sam » Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:11 pm

HPbyStan wrote:
minetymenace wrote:does that engine have a wet sump?
Dry sump


I bet it would be pretty tricky getting the wet in there. If it hangs around with that frame very long it will probably start wet sumping just cause,,,,,,

Are you being rude? :smile:

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Re: Hybrid

Post by HPbyStan » Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:28 pm

"Are you being rude?"
I have potential,,,, ;-)

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Re: Hybrid

Post by minetymenace » Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:48 am

:grin:
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Re: Hybrid

Post by andyj » Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:37 pm

Not much of that lovely O.I.F left , kinda pointless really , may as well just get an SRX 600, just a thought.

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Re: Hybrid

Post by Sam » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:38 pm

andyj wrote:Not much of that lovely O.I.F left , kinda pointless really , may as well just get an SRX 600, just a thought.

Pointless? Getting an SRX would be so easy have you ever taken on a challenge Andy!? what would have happened to that OIF? I found seven within two calls gathering rust. It would just be another SRX wouldn't it!

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Re: Hybrid

Post by skippy » Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:46 am

It's all in the challenge and when it's finished, what a great talking point for the experts at events. <201
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Re: Hybrid

Post by nopdog » Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:16 am

Sorry don't like it. It will still be jap crap when finished and be more of what were you thinking or smoking and it should not be on this site. If it's got a jap engine it's jap and you've just rooted a B50 frame. Good on ya.
Ask me what I REALLY THINK.
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Re: Hybrid

Post by Sam » Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:04 am

nopdog wrote:Sorry don't like it. It will still be jap crap when finished and be more of what were you thinking or smoking and it should not be on this site. If it's got a jap engine it's jap and you've just rooted a B50 frame. Good on ya.
Ask me what I REALLY THINK.
Just my two bobs worth.

Everyone is entitled to there opinion, as I stated at the start of the thread feel free to remove but that will be the moderators choice not by someone that is stuck in the past. I find it strange in this day and age that the comment jap crap still exists wake up and smell the coffee. <213

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Re: Hybrid

Post by Grayham » Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:21 am

I like it, even though it's completely pointless and I can't imagine ever wanting to go to all that trouble myself. :razz:
I'm currently building two bikes with BSA engines in non-BSA frames. It's a good job we're not all the same and someone else wants to do it the other way round. :thumb
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Re: Hybrid

Post by Sam » Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:41 am

I dont see where this POINTLESS comment comes from! Why would you not want a light bike that goes round corners well on the road and with a twin disc on the front stop on a sixpence? That sounds like fun to me and it will mess with purists heads. :smile:

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