LOBE 2 20-21

[twinshocker]

I´sorry to sound so hart Beat , but i predict this will be your next DNF with a damage of a couple of hundred Stutz to your wallet !!
Don´t get me wrong , i would be very happy i i am wrong !

A plain bearing is always better in this place , they do it only on twostrokes where they have ne decent oil supply !

[Mark Cook]

Not as much fun for Beat, but a PES version would still be working

And cheaper by now I expect.

Mark

[beat]

A plain bearing is always better in this place ,

Don´t get me wrong , i would be very happy i i am wrong !

I will try to find this out.....

Not as much fun for Beat,

this is why !

[kommando]

Needle rollers in place of bushes is to cope with high revs, in a small end its a rocking motion and small end wear is rare in a relatively low revving single. A solution in search of a rare problem is mis-directed resources.

[beat]

hi kommando

I got teached once ( it is a wheile since and it is maybe wrong ) as a roller bearing is having much less friction and is producing by far less heat in compare to a plain bearing, - mainly if it is under heavy load.

by all this three „ sizers“ we got last season, the plain bearing of the piston pin was involfed by showing overheating colores
and once it was twisting the bush in the smalend.

maybe this is a result of the non alingment of the piston to the barrel bore, but in my eyes it not wrong to have a needle bearing in place.
and about the lubrication , - the roller bearing is much easier to handling, less oil needed, less cooling needed.

beat

[Mark Cook]

How is the piston going to loose heat, now it can't pass it to the connecting rod Beat?

[minetymenace]

....by the additional oil spray Beat has added perhaps Mark?

[kommando]

....by the additional oil spray Beat has added perhaps Mark?

Which is not currently working if the gudgeon pin is being coloured by overheating. It will be worse with a needle roller not better. Beat using an oxygen sensor to tune the carb would also mean he is running a leaner more efficient combustion which will lead to more heat up top.

[beat]

The oil spray is what I do count on it about cooling.
the A/F mixture is nicely on the rich side by 12.3 to 13.4 range, - AND THIS BY OVERLOD TROTTLE POSITION !
means it is running cooler than a street legal engine wich is serving the exhaust gas restrictions.

But I stil ask myself what kind of bearing is used in other modern 4stroke racing engines?

anyone got a Idea ore a drawing ?

beat

[Mark Cook]

Your very long stroke engine has nothing to do with modern racing engines Beat.
I think you require more material in the skirt of the piston, also a larger pin diameter.
Some engines I have seen have plated small end eyes, but that is also to do with weight.

Mark

[beat]

plated smal end eye. ??

means plain bearing but no extra bushing inside ??

beat

[Mark Cook]

The small end eye is hardened I believe, then plated to act as a bearing.

Mark,

[beat]

thanks mark

[Momus]

The oil spray is what I do count on it about cooling.
the A/F mixture is nicely on the rich side by 12.3 to 13.4 range, - AND THIS BY OVERLOD TROTTLE POSITION !
means it is running cooler than a street legal engine wich is serving the exhaust gas restrictions.

But I stil ask myself what kind of bearing is used in other modern 4stroke racing engines?

anyone got a Idea ore a drawing ?

beat

One approach is no bearing or bush, just a case hardened eye, with lube holes drilled from underneath, so as the piston slows as it approaches TDC, oil entrained with the rod can get into the space under the pin, and a DLC plated pin.

A hard bronze bushed eye and a tool steel/DLC piston pin is another.

A case hardened rod eye, lube hole/holes on top and a steel pin slightly softer than the eye is your basic H*nda, Y*maha production etc set up and is used in most of their 4 stroke race and performance road engines- right up to the 90's 20000 rpm capable 250 4 cylinder things and the current low pressure oiling 250 and 450 MX units

A blued pin will be likely caused by being too tight in the eye. You probably want 001" clearance per inch of pin diameter- so 0007"- 0008".

Just a few thoughts.

[beat]

interesting variations, -- thank you Momus

beat

at the moment, I work on the small lug cases from Ian Hinglay to make them take the 680cc barrel.
not sure it will ever work.....

a lot of welding work ahead, wonder how the deforming will be ??

[Mark Cook]

Remember the casting will be soft after all that welding.

Mark

[beat]

Remember the casting will be soft after all that welding.

I take the risk.....

four hour of welding and half a bottle Argon used for one side only


beat

[kommando]

Angled small end on con rod so that the bush presents more surface area to the greater downward forces without increasing the overall weight.

[Mark Cook]

The extra material on the top and bottom of the rod is for balancing.
If your brave you can remove it all to lighten the rods.
I did a lot of those in my teenage years.

Mark

[hhh]

How can extra material at either end of the rod be useful for balancing? Other than matching two or more rods, I'd say it could only make balance worse. A massless rod would be ideal.

[beat]

I havn't seen this nose on a small end side till now...



( should I weld one onto the Carrillo rod to be faster on the track )

[kommando]

That con rod was just an example of the angle sided bush, the weights top and bottom are just for that specific engine and not related to the angled bush.

Here is a Cummins engine conrod without the top weight. Its a low revving diesel engine so the weight at the bottom is not going to give you issues.

[Mark Cook]

Even on a diesel the lump on the bottom is for balancing the set of rods.
Again for racing I would remove it.

Beat, welding something to the rod would guarantee something would escape your engine.

Mark

[beat]

Beat, welding something to the rod would guarantee something would escape your engine.

yes mark, - and there is enough escaping my wallet, - so I do not need something more is escaping everywhere !

beat




BTW, - dos anyone knowing where is minetymenance

[minetymenace]

Hi Beat, sorry I've been away, but have replied to your pm....

[beat]

Thank you Minety, - I find you pm and - let's go the way...

today, I tried to finishing the welding on this small lug B25 cases.

and, - as I was struggling on the prim drive side with my little welding machine already, ( by 180 Amps welding current ), I have to give up on this work
at the bigger, - the timing side case.

widing the front of the neck, site to the front lug, - it was realy difficult, - needing lot of passion with the welder and the gas torch to reach the temperature needed.
coming to the rear of the neck where lot of heat energy desapears to the gearbox side of the casing, - to much heat vent away and the welder dropped in to the " overload Alarm " to often, so I had to give up this work!

so I have to find a stronger welding device to do it, - ore some one else to do this job for me.

anyway, I started to clean up the primary side on the mill and see if it is usable....

beat

[Momus]

Thank you Minety, - I find you pm and - let's go the way...

today, I tried to finishing the welding on this small lug B25 cases.

and, - as I was struggling on the prim drive side with my little welding machine already, ( by 180 Amps welding current ), I have to give up on this work
at the bigger, - the timing side case.
DSCN3471.jpeg

widing the front of the neck, site to the front lug, - it was realy difficult, - needing lot of passion with the welder and the gas torch to reach the temperature needed.
coming to the rear of the neck where lot of heat energy desapears to the gearbox side of the casing, - to much heat vent away and the welder dropped in to the " overload Alarm " to often, so I had to give up this work!
DSCN3472.jpeg

so I have to find a stronger welding device to do it, - ore some one else to do this job for me.

anyway, I started to clean up the primary side on the mill and see if it is usable....
DSCN3470.jpeg

beat

I admire your persistence with the cases Beat. I am, or was, doing a very extensive weld up on a B50 head which has about the same amount of mass. I started with my little 150 amp transformer machine and got nowhere, went to a 200 amp inverter unit- slightly better results but only on the thin sections. I went to a 3 phase 250 amp inverter unit but still couldn't quite get what I wanted to happen inside the ports. Next step is a 400 amp unit with a water cooled torch and perhaps a argon/helium gas mixture.

It quite literally would have been easier to start with a chunk of bar for the head after the time and effort expended.
With your cases a welders blanket, or some fiberglass cloth, might help with keeping it hot.

[beat]

I am, or was, doing a very extensive weld up on a B50 head which has about the same amount of mass. I started with my little 150 amp transformer machine and got nowhere, went to a 200 amp inverter unit- slightly better results but only on the thin sections. I went to a 3 phase 250 amp inverter unit but still couldn't quite get what I wanted to happen inside the ports. Next step is a 400 amp unit with a water cooled torch.

hi momus
very right, - it is needing a other machine, and a water cooled torch because I could not hold my air cooled torch in my hand about the heat

With your cases a welders blanket, or some fiberglass cloth, might help with keeping it hot.

good Idea ! I will shurely do this when I have to go again on to my cases on other smaller places as well....

beat

[Jack Gifford]

Beat- Are you not heating the item prior-to and during welding? A friend I use for welding light alloy is a retired trade school welding instructor. He ALWAYS pre-heats any light alloy item to be welded- even large V8 engine blocks- and re-heats them as necessary. I don't know exactly what temperature, but it's well over 200 degrees F for cast aluminum. Followed, of course, by controlled-rate cool-down.

[beat]

yes Jack, I do the pre heating, - first with the airgun and then with a gas torch.
( I can not blow with the gun nor with the torch whilst welding TIG )
but I guess, by a surtain size casing, - it needs a surtain amount of Amps to do it successfully.
and this is missing in my case...


beat

[beat]

as it is so quiet in the forum....

------- riddle, ----- anyone up to imagin what this will be at the end ..
.

on the left of the engine...

coming to the right of the engine ( timing side ) not finished yet...

beat

[skippy]

The left will be a crank handle electric starter. The right will be a special dismount peg.

[eebtr7]

Beat, why are you displaying the panel hinge parts from an overhead garage door?

[beat]

The left will be a crank handle electric starter. The right will be a special dismount peg.

Beat, why are you displaying the panel hinge parts from an overhead garage door?

because I am getting older and more lazy ! .....

on the right side now....

any other ones

Beat

[beat]

.............. .........

[beat]

[beat]

clutch cable.....

[Ian Hingley]

The clutch operated by your left foot??

Are any hydraulics involved?

Ian

[beat]

The clutch operated by your left foot??

Are any hydraulics involved?

Partly right Ian, - hydraulics involved for rear brake only...

engine right side nearly finished .....

for left side parts in progress...

getting closer....

about ....

beat

[beat]