Victor Enduro B44EA2312

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by kommando » Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:45 pm

The narrow yokes go with the 7" single sided brake, the wider yokes go with the 8" single sided brake and also the 7" Twin leading shoe brake. So which set you can use will be set by the brake you use.

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by Simmy » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:35 am

Yes thanks kommando, I think I have the front end totally sorted now. The pile of parts I started with didn't exactly fit together. I had a good set of Triumph style forks with the wider yokes but a wheel with the threaded axle from the 67 Vic. I had most of the parts for 1 Vic fork leg in a box. I also had a complete Norton Commando front end and a pair of bent Norton stanchions I first believed belonged to the Vic. Then I also bought a rusty old set of forks from something really strange. I haven't seen any BSA with the fender mounting tab on the front of the lower slider. I knew nothing about Brit bikes before I bought all this junk so its been worth the money just for the education. I'm waiting for new stanchions and I've ordered a new rim and spokes for a 21" front wheel conversion. This Vic is getting full blown knobbies. I'm still missing the fork shrouds that cover the springs. The 441GP has awesome aluminum ones that I'd like to replicate. There must be something of the same ID I can substitute. It's getting an oval number plate instead of a head light. There are a couple of websites with vintage MX plastic I'm drooling over.

I had a closer look at my replacement swing arm, at first I thought it looked ok but now that everything else is starting to look shiney I decided to repaint it to.
sandblasted swingarm.JPG
sandblasted and ready for primer
silentblock  & seized one.JPG
The pieces on the left are what I cut out of the original swing arm to get it out. Notice how the pivot shaft is completely fused to the silent block
brake rod.JPG
I'm really proud of my brake rod. I spent about a 1/2 hr and managed to get it reasonably straight. I should have taken a pic of it when I started. I honestly believed it was junk and any on ebay are dear.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by skippy » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:31 am

It a good feeling bringing junk back to life again. Keep up the good work.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by minetymenace » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:35 pm

Simmy wrote:I haven't seen any BSA with the fender mounting tab on the front of the lower slider.
A65 from the mid '60s, some C15 (C15S?) and Goldies I think all had these....

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by Simmy » Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:14 am

footpeg in position.jpg
I searched ebay for dirtbike footpegs and found these. They're aftermarkets for S*zuki RM250. When I saw the pics I thought it looked pretty close to what I wanted. With a little bit of filing in some areas and weld build-up in others, I think I can make them work.
RM250 aftermarket footpegs.jpg
aftermarket cast steel footpegs intended for 91-2000 RM250's. $22 with free shipping. The angle is perfect.
will require spacers.jpg
it will require some washer shims to fill the gap between the bsa part and the new peg.
Attachments
almost lines up.jpg
very close. Slight mods needed but it will work I think.
Last edited by Simmy on Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by steve m » Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:22 am

they look good Simmy, nothin' worse than a foot slippin' off :shock: :oops:

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by Simmy » Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:23 am

I agree, the rubber pegs from BSA look like an accident in waiting if there's any mud on your boot. Does anyone know when serrated pegs first appeared?
motor now in frame.jpg
here's the money shot milestone. 18 months after starting this 2,000 piece jigsaw, the assembled motor has a home!
rear brake pedal.jpg
I put off final paint on this part because it looks bent. Is the tab for the brake rod supposed to be bent this far?
Attachments
brake pedal.jpg
looks bent to me.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by Barry Creary » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:03 am

Yes Simmy it looks bent to me :shock: mine looks to be at 90 deg to the pivot bose :thumb

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by Simmy » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:18 pm

Thanks Barry. A little heat on it and it should bend back easy enough. I'm not sure how this got bent like this?
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by steve m » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:11 am

if it were me i would be looking for some pictures of another B44 before i started heating and bending things.

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by Barry Creary » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:09 am

Your right Steve. I didn't notice its a B44 mine is a B50 :oops:

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by steve m » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:12 am

<201 does look strange though....but then.

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by kommando » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:52 am

Apply heat and bend to 90, this is the correct figure for all the bikes that used this rear brake lever back to the Competition C15.


Its normally the foot pad end that gets bent, into the primary where it cracks the case or wears a groove.

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by Simmy » Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:43 am

the fuel tank was scraped clean of all the rubber foam it sits on. I thought I'd see if the part called up in the manual was still available. It was. The tank now sits exactly as intended. The right side of the tank has survived some adventures. Still looks ok, just patina as they say. The left side looks better.
new tank pads.JPG
Nothing like receiving the exact thickness and density of foam without guessing.
tank in place.JPG
a few scratches, still cool
left side good.JPG
I have new Red BSA decals and I've ordered the replacement checkered-flag one.
rear rim rust.JPG
I started cleaning up the rear rim to see exactly what I had. I've ordered a new 21" for the front and the 19" I have is rusty and would need replacement anyway. This is the worst of chrome finish, acceptable by my standards.
dents in rim.JPG
I don't know how these dents were formed? I wonder if a gorilla changing a tire could do this, the rim edge is not bent when you hit something. 3 spokes were loose and they all tightened up nicely with a liquid wrench soaking first.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by midgie » Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:25 am

looking good great job! regards midgie.

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by Simmy » Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:34 am

I decided to change the rear wheel bearings and entered a land of frustration. You can read about my trials & mishaps in Tech or click here:

http://b50.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5477

Much thanks to Gordon in NC for the help.
Here's a few pics of a Hoser's bike.
I located 2' of each of the 3 sizes of rubber oil hose required, the 1/4" and 5/16" were available from any automotive supplier but they don't carry 3/8". I had to go to a hose specialist for that one.
I thought it was strange that all the lines are different sizes, however it's a fool proof set up as each hose fits only it's 2 nipples.
extra long oil hose.jpg
all oil hoses hooked up but obviously not cut to length.
Notice the heat shield spring on the 3/8" hose coming from the tank, I found it amongst the parts. That hose rests pretty close to the exhaust.
I finally accepted the paint finish on the oil tank. I kept ending up with over spray or a run somewhere it would show. After the 5th coat I give up. Nothing a few stickers can't cover.
oil tank.jpg
finish on tank acceptable. The next bike I paint I'm going to buy a spray gun and learn how to use it.
I shined up the handle bar controls I found in one of the boxes. The front brake lever is Magura, it even has a rubber boot still intact.
handle bar controls.jpg
these parts all came loose in the jumble of stuff I bought. The Norton stuff I had was easy to pick out since it had a hydraulic master cylinder with the brake lever.
front brake & decomp cables.jpg
cables will be salvaged as they appear acceptable. I think I might have the speedo cable, it could be Norton though.
kick start rubber.jpg
I ordered a replacement kick start rubber but what arrived is too short. Does my kicker look stock?
coil.jpg
diamond tu-29.jpg
I plan to use this coil I found amongst the parts. It says Diamond model TU-29
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by Simmy » Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:49 am

I bought a used 59T rear sprocket off e-bay. I checked with my supplier and he couldn't find any of these monsters from his suppliers. I really should have mounted a smaller front sprocket as they are cheaper and available brand new on e-bay, right down to 12T . I wasn't sure how small you can go without possible interference. The stock front sprocket I have is still good so I used it. At the time I was assembling the motor I figured suitable gearing is my least worry, If I ever get it running I'll worry about it then. Then logic set in and I concluded the stock gearing would be way too high for the dirt. Now even if it runs like a turd it might still wheelie! 778
59 vs 49.jpg
The monster 59T aluminum sprocket is no heavier than the 49T stocker in steel. Unfortunately 10 extra links of chain is heavier.
59T rear sprocket.jpg
I sandblasted it today and cleaned it up a bit. The front face of the sprocket has aluminum corrosion from the years, the back side is perfect, it always figures.
chain tensioners.jpg
the tensioner on the left is brand new. The 2nd one has new washer and nut. The 3rd one has damaged threads.
fork caps.jpg
these were rusty so I sandblasted and painted them. I think another coat will do it, I'll need to touch them up after installation anyway.
rear drum.jpg
I'm actually getting good paint results with the brush. It's getting cold here and my garage is not warm enough for spray painting.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by Simmy » Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:33 am

front wheel offset.jpg
I'm having Walridge re-lace the front wheel with custom 21" spoke & rim set. It shouldn't look too far out of place. The 441GP had a 20" so the 21" should look good with a proper knobbie tire fitted.
front wheel offset2.jpg
I measured the distance to the rim, 5/8" or 16 mm. The rim was 68 mm wide, so a total of 50 mm from edge of brake drum to centre of rim.
spokes came out easy.jpg
I soaked the spokes in liquid wrench and surprisingly they all easily screwed out.
front hub.jpg
front hub with dirt from new most likely since its pretty hard to clean there.
fr hub cleaned up.jpg
I cleaned it up with a rag and it looked pretty good. I touched up all the chips & scratches with a paint brush and shipped it off to Walridge.
front brake drum.jpg
drum roll please!
shocks.jpg
Any hope I had of salvaging a decent pair of shocks was dashed when I took a closer look at everything I had. The best set I had were the pair which came mounted to the frame. The swing arm was bent so only one side could be bolted up. I suspect the bent one in the picture was on the bike when the swing arm was bent. I think someone probably tired to replace the shocks then scratched their head when one shock needed to be 1/2" different from the other. The 2 best shocks in the pic have zero compression dampening but some rebound resistance. At least they will get me by until after the bike is running. The other shocks have absolutely no resistance in either direction - all junk. I found another fork spring LOL.
Attachments
rear bearing driver.jpg
I made this tool to tap in the rear wheel bearings Gordon from NC so kindly sent me. This 2" tubing I have has come in handy for many things over the years.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by chamber66 » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:22 am

Keep up the good work. I,m really enjoying this thread

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by Simmy » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:06 pm

Thanks Chamber, I'll be following your post with interest for sure. Had some time this weekend to start assembling things. All the real work is in the small details, but once it starts coming together it sure is rewarding.
as of Nov 17 2013.jpg
swing arm, rear wheel and brake linkage installed
RH side.jpg
pipe fitted up. I don't have a muffler yet. There was a muffler included but it sure wasn't for a Victor. I found a replica of the 441GP silencer on line but at $259 I"ll have to come up with something else. The Victor Special peanut style are not too bad at $149 but I want something louder.
never seize.jpg
I coated the replacement swing arm pivot with Never-Seize. Just in case someone wants to restore this thing in another 50 years.
new speedo drive.jpg
I bought a new Indian made speedo drive box. I have a speedo in nice shape however I'm missing any brackets to hold it or the rubber cup its supposed to sit in.
:ban
LH side.jpg
I got another brake arm of e-bay as the one I had was completely knackered. I was wrong about the rear sprocket, the best side is the one that shows
Brake pedal.jpg
I greased'er up before I put the brake lever on. There's a grease nipple missing but it looks just as easy to disassemble for grease anyway.
gas line.jpg
I found the gas line however it is hard as rock. There's no way its going to hold fuel without leaks. BSA sure complicated this step of the way. I can put a rubber hose on the carb spigot but then there's no way to connect to the petcock as it takes a screwed union.
:cry:
gas line2.jpg
what is the best way to connect the friggin gas line?
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by malcward » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:17 pm

Best thing to do with the fuel line is ,
place it in really hot water until it becomes pliable ,then shape it to fit.

Cheers
Malc

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by Gordon in NC » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:16 pm

Simmy wrote:gas line :cry:

Simmy.....that gas line union/nut should be free to turn. Are you sure it's just not gummed up???? Try a cleaning solvent...carb cleaner or such and see if you can free up the nut. BSA was a LOT smarter than you might think. BSA was a working man's motorcycle and designed so the working man could keep it on the road.

Good luck.....it sure is looking good.. :smile: ...Gordon in NC
Last edited by minetymenace on Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: square brackets make the BBCodes work :)

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by Simmy » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:49 pm

Gordon, the screwed union end threads on to the petcock perfectly. It's just the curvature of the hose at the moment is wrong and feels like it will shatter if I try to bend it to the shape needed. I will try Malcolm's advise of boiling it in water to soften it up. My other concern is ensuring a leak proof seal at the carb. I'm sure I can push the hose on to the nipple attached to the carb but I have doubts about it not leaking. A simple rubber hose with 2 clamps at each end would have been better in my opinion, seems to work for every other bike out there today.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by Gordon in NC » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:01 pm

simmy.....okay I musta misread your post???? I don't know how others do it, but I turn the petcock in the other direction.

Really though....I don't use old lines...oil or gas. The stuff is pretty cheap and I do the simple hose with a clamp at each end.

Take care.....Gordon in NC

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by Simmy » Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:37 pm

I just unpacked 2 new alloy fenders for my project. I need someone out there with a 441GP to measure how much the rear fender protrudes past the frame rail loop. I can eye it up from some pics on the net but the actual measurement would be appreciated.

I see that gas line spigotts and nuts to fit the BSA petcock are available. I'm going to order this so that a standard rubber gas line with hose clamps can be used.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by gpvictor » Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:34 am

Distance from frame loop to end of rear mudguard on a GP is 7" - centre to tip.
Mike

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by Simmy » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:38 am

That 7" dimension seems short Mike. Here's a pic at 7" overhang and another at about 11-1/2".
I've shown the original sketch of the 441GP at the bottom of this post for reference. My fender has a flared edge on the tip which gives it a quick bob Harley look when mounted up short. Not so obvious when the fender is used full length and it hangs down under a license plate. Maybe I'll switch it around and have a plain edge like the BSA sketch.

fender with seven inches.jpg
fender with 7" overhang
fender with about 11 inches.jpg
fender with 11-1/2" overhang
pipe clearance.jpg
pipe clearance with fender. My fender measures 5-5/8" wide, looks to clear the pipe, if it needs trimming it won't need much.
I ripped the original seat apart out of curiosity. Really it wasn't in bad shape but the foam was crumblier than burnt toast.
I'd like to fab a carriage to hold my new aluminum seat the same way the BSA seat mounts, with the bracket at the front and bolted to the shocks at the back.
BSA seat.jpg
seat coming apart.jpg
BSA seat foam crumble.jpg
BSA seat foam.jpg
seat mounts.jpg
Attachments
images.jpg
original image of the 441GP
images.jpg (10.39 KiB) Viewed 8038 times
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by chamber66 » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:53 am

Still loving this thread, just read it all over again :thumb

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by gpvictor » Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:40 pm

Mudguard length - hmmmmmm.
Go to www.gpvictor.com to see a picture of my bike off which the 7" measurement was taken.
Look ok?
The GP mudguard is a specific item to my understanding - a pile of which resided in the Comps dept. for works supported riders to pick up in quantity when passing through.
They measure 8" x 24" and have a wire bead all round and despite what the man in Birmingham says, who claims to know everything about mudguards, they were not made in the thirties!
Now that means there is very little scope for sticking 11" out the back but of course with a non-standard mudguard you can do what you like. My experience with motocrossers is that you need them fairly short 1) to reduce fractures, and 2) to throw as much s**t as possible at whomsoever is behind you.
I think the picture of what, I agree is a longer item than I describe, is more of a drawing than a photo of a real bike - I could be wrong.
Chac'un a son gout.
Mike

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by Simmy » Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:17 pm

Thanks again for the post Mike. Nice site. I heard the GP had a wider fender but 8", that must be rare to find.
As with your suggestion I will cut it to whatever looks best to me. This thing may eventually end up back on the road so I might need enough real estate to mount a tail light eventually.
I have time to think about it.
Mounting the 21" front fender is going to take some custom stays. That will be another project.

I assembled the steering stem today. I managed to salvage both bearing cups & the top cone from another set of yokes. 40 new 1/4" balls and a new bottom cone and new fork pinch bolts.
steering stem 1.jpg
assembled steering stem
steering stem 2.jpg
forks in this pic are scrap, only installed to tighten the steering stem
petcock  spigot.jpg
it never dawned on me before to just strip the banding off the union end of the gas line. I now have everything I need to slip a normal fuel line at the petcock.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by Gordon in NC » Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:09 pm

Simmy...you get an ata boy for the fuel line fix.

THANK YOU for the present......and no, I didn't have one...my 22 year old son took my last one and he's kept it.

Thanks again......take care, Gordon in NC

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by minetymenace » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:58 am

Gordon wrote:you get an ata boy for the fuel line fix
The forum language is English" :laugh
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by Jack Gifford » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:44 am

"ata boy" is colonial English... :smile: [Do we need to translate for you Minety?]
"Motley" bike history: Horex 400, 1940 HD 45 FH, HD Baja 100, '49 Indian Scout 440, Victor 441 Roadster, H*nda TL125, Guzzi V50, H*nda FT500, 400-4, NX250
Aside from bikes: known as the "guru" of M/T hemi Pontiacs

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by Simmy » Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:05 pm

I finally found time to return to the project now that Xmas and New Year's are done. It's no longer 20 below so the garage is a little more comfortable.
I built up enough nerve to attack my new rear fender. I settled on 12" overhang out the back. I took my time and the results look good.
cardboard battery box.jpg
I need to find a cover for this side to eventually hide all this, something like the sidecovers the GP has.
cardboard battery box & rear fender installed.jpg
I've mocked up a battery box out of cardboard for now. I'm undecided whether to fabricate the final out of sheet aluminum or fiberglass. I modeled it to fit the same battery my KTM uses but something smaller would be better.
rear fender fitting.jpg
I thought I'd practice on the scrap piece cut off before drilling into the actual fender. The lower mounting tabs are not centred so I used the scrap piece as a template. I believe I will need to shape the fender around the exhaust and I need to cut it out for the drive chain.
cut fender.jpg
measure twice, cut once!
dremel cutter.jpg
This little cutting wheel is great for shaping & cutting plastic or aluminum.
Simmy
67/68 B44 Vic

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by beat » Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:58 pm

:thumb :thumb
beat

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by Simmy » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:28 pm

no update for the Vic but I just posted some pics of my other project this winter.

go here if you're curious. My bike is posted Jan.24th, 5:19 PM

http://b50.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1 ... 3&start=80
Simmy
67/68 B44 Vic

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by Simmy » Sat May 03, 2014 5:46 am

Wow, my last post was Jan so time for another update on the Vic.
I had a choice to make mounting the seat. Most pics of Victors I see on the net that have solo seats have them mounted directly to the frame. This probably looks the best but since I'm fairly tall it looked like it was going to sit too low for me. I thought I'd mount the solo seat similar to the way BSA mounted the stock seat. I utilized the front clip from the original BSA seat and with a new bracket I fabricated, it is bolted it to the shock mounts in the rear. This closely maintains the stock seat height.
mocked up bsa seat base.jpg
I trimmed the stock seat base down to form a pan for solo seat and its aluminum base. This was a mock up only.
front hook.jpg
This little sucker was one bugger to remove, lots of grinding
front hook cleaned up.jpg
This will be all that is retained from the stock seat
rivets.jpg
This was welded front and back and riveted 3 times. BSA were makin sure this wasn't coming apart!
seat base1.jpg
new seat base made from 10Ga plate and flat bar bent for the shock mounts
seat base3.jpg
I really like dirt bikes with a good hand hold somewhere to drag them from the mud. With the seat mounted a little taller it made for a perfect place to grab hold. I made sure this was plenty strong.
rear of seat grab rail.jpg
assembled seat with handy grab rail
rear shot 1.jpg
seat, fender mounted
seat mount 2.jpg
new chain from India, new tire, tube and rim lock from Taiwan
seat mount 1.jpg
chain installed.jpg
Indian made chain with lots of length to wrap around the big sprocket
new 21 in rim with custom spokes bsa hub.jpg
Front wheel is now an Italian made 21" rim, custom galvanized spokes and a BSA hub.
The rim is a perfect match for the OEM 18" rear.
Duro 410-18.jpg
Taiwanese made Duro 4.10-18". The tire size specified is a 4.00 so this one is close. Still looks skinny and could probably handle something bigger as there is lots of clearance with the chain.
M59 80 100 21.jpg
Bridgestone M59 Motocross in 80/100-21". This is the reason I went to the cost and trouble (well cost only as I paid to have it laced, heh).
Still to this day there really isn't anything available off-road in anything but a 21".
coil mount.jpg
This is a new coil mounting bracket. I fabricated a tab to the top engine stay. Now it will tuck neatly in place.
battery box mock up II.jpg
This is my next project. Just getting started playing around with a sheet of aluminum.
That's about it for now. Once I have the battery box done I can install the wiring.
With the chain in place I played with the gear box. So far so good as it snicks into gear like a new tranny.
I still have not opened the carb so that is still to do also.
Simmy
67/68 B44 Vic

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by steve m » Sat May 03, 2014 11:33 am

i'm likin' it :thumb
good onya Simmy :thumb
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by beat » Sat May 03, 2014 7:49 pm

Simmy wrote:new coil mounting bracket.
just hope it dos not bracke from the vibrations - as mine was doing....
now it is fitted with rubber patches underneath the screws, - problem solved.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Post by blaise » Tue May 06, 2014 10:26 pm

Looking great

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