1978 CCM Replica Build

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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Nambo » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:29 am

Lovely, but when are you going to fit some rear shock spring covers?

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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Malcolms Lad » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:01 pm

Hello all,

How have you lovely people been??? So the rebuilt B44 lump managed a wholesome 110 mls before blowing the big end!

:(

So looks like i need to speak to someone...

joe
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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by midgie » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:24 pm

Hello joe didn't you have this trouble before?

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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Malcolms Lad » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:16 am

Hi Mate,

Same Issue, I never got round to taking it apart and sorting so since all that work last year it hasn't actually turned a wheel this season. :(
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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Malcolms Lad » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:25 pm

Engine is out so here comes the post mortem and a plan of attack over this week.... hopefully its not all bad although it certainly sounded that way.
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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Barry Creary » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:39 pm

We love photos Mr Lad B50icon

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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Malcolms Lad » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:12 pm

So head and barrel off this evening, she is very broke! Big end is done for, EDV piston has taken a battering and I'm heart broken. Looks like a visit to Mr. Cook is on hand. It hasn't seen the light of day this year and im damned if im not getting some proper miles next year..

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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Barry Creary » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:41 pm

Oh no that's bad B50icon are the cases okay the Conrod didn't let go :uhu the piston looking like scrape <201

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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by midgie » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:04 pm

Had you had anything blasted joe? it looks like the damage was caused by grit.

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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by JB » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:16 pm

Sorry to see this Joe, I followed your project with much interest, hope you sort it out soon and get to enjoy your great bike.

Cheers John

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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Malcolms Lad » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:24 pm

The frame was blasted but that has been thoroughly flushed prior to build I've made that mistake before.,..

Its fine swarf my mag drain plug is covered in the remains of the big end, theres lots of small pieces of bearing material about the place... Its gonna cost me dearly once again!

That said after this its gonna need another thorough flushing lol
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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Andy Chaos » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:01 am

called in on an old mate of mine yesterday who was cleaning an oil in frame out. He has drilled some holes in the drum of his cement mixer, strapped his paraffin filled frame to the front and turned it on. :thumb
I would still run a filter though.

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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by minetymenace » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:30 am

Andy, if ever there was a requirement to post a picture, this is it!
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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Malcolms Lad » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:34 pm

Thanks guys, I know it is extremely frustrating, I've been thinking hard on it over night and reckon I'll pull the outer cased tonight and get the gearbox out ready to split the cases...

Need to have a good hard look at the gauze filter in the frame to as Midgie really has got me wondering about the risk of blast contamination.

In a strange way I hope it is something so simple although I will be extremely annoyed with myself!
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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by minetymenace » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:44 pm

Everything you do from now will make it better. It would be nice to find a smoking gun that explains why you are in the garage not on the road though. It won't take long, its only time and money. :oops:

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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Andy Chaos » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:05 pm

minetymenace wrote:Andy, if ever there was a requirement to post a picture, this is it!
I know but i was totally unprepared but quietly impressed, it just seemed so wrong yet i cant come up with a reason why not. His next plan is to strap a tank inside full of bolts to remove rust :shock: , if he tells me when i will pop round for a photo.

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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by beat » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:24 pm

Was there any Oil around it by dismantling ?

:?: :?:

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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Malcolms Lad » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:29 am

Hi beat,

Yeah oil seems to be getting round, I have no issues at the small end a good strong feed to the rockers, cam is fine and the crank after 12 months since the blow up still has a film of oil all over it...

I'm going to split the cases shortly and get a more upclose view of the crash site...
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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by beat » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:56 pm

hi malcolm

it remembers me at my one years ago.
and yes, there was oil around two.
and it sized several times always at higher revs only.

then it was Ed Valiket pointing me to the gauze / Filter at the fraim outlet.

with the gauze in place, the hose NOT connected to the engine, I refilled the oil in to the frame and watched how freely it comes out of the hose.

IT CAMES ONLY DROPWISE, NO FREE FLOW !!

with the small suction of the feed pump it was enough to lubb at low revs, - a minute ore two in high revs was getting it sized :!:


this was mine, with a brand new piston in as well...... :cry:

beat :werd

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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Johnq1 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:47 pm

This post has me a little worried as i had my frame blasted and although i thoroughly cleaned it out I am thinking of an alternative oil tank, has anyone successfully fitted one and where did you put it,

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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Malcolms Lad » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:26 pm

Hi beat

Yeah I see what you mean. In all fairness to bike she never seized/stopped or smoked. And still had plenty of go to the end.

Coming up with a cost effective plan atm.
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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Malcolms Lad » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:47 am

Hi all,

I have finally gotten the clutch and primary apart just need to pull the engine sprocket and clutch hub then the gearbox can exit the proceedings.

Should have the crank out this week ready to fully inspect... quite nervous now!

Joe
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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Malcolms Lad » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:07 pm

Split the cases tonight and see the true extent of the damage, think i caught it pretty early as there is nothing horrendous yet...

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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Malcolms Lad » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:10 pm

So i split the cases a few moments ago and remarkably.... nothing. The mains bearings are unmarked, no play or damage, no debris in the cases except for that in the mesh in sump.

I need to check free flow of the oil ways in the two cases.

My only real suspects atm are:

1. Defective roller or cage in the alpha big end kit
2. Pump but I would have expected loss of feed to the top and catastrophic failure.
3. Oil pressure release valve too weak reducing flow to the big end.

Any experts around with any ideas please give me a shout, let me have your thoughts, criticisms.

I'm at a loss at the min, but I wanna get this up and running for next season.
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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by stew79 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:07 pm

Malcolm, roller big ends only need a tiny amount of oil to keep working, so if the pressure or flow was very low, for what ever reason, the piston would have seized up long before the bearing failed. you must have had a bad big end bearing in some way. the roller cage for a big end is different to any other cage, but would look similar ? could alpha have been supplied with the wrong type ? or could you get a hardness test carried out on the pin, ring and rollers, (what ever is left) to see if they are as hard as they should be.
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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by JB » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:27 pm

Joe, the pictures of your cylinder bore look odd to me as the wear marks look completely the wrong way around!

Looking at your pictures; where the piston rings run the honing marks have hardly worn off showing little or no bedding in of the rings, yet where the piston skirt runs the honing marks appear to have gone evenly all the way around the bore. You would expect to see the opposite of what you have here in your pictures?

Most of the heat from the piston is transferred by the rings and not the skirt, yours looks like the piston has over heated because the rings weren't bedding in. Out of interest what oil were you using as this could be part of your problem...just a thought for now.

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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Malcolms Lad » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:51 pm

The pictures arent that clear, the bore marks are on the for and aft thrust faces in direction of crank rotation so I would expect that...

The marks are a result of debris from the big end failure I'm confident of that now.

I see what you mean regarding honing marks and rung bedding but it's key to note this big end only lasted just over 100 miles so barely into running in...

RTS who built the crank put sole blame down to oil starvation but I'm really not convinced of that.

It ran 50 miles on havoline bedding oil courtesy of where I work then onto Castrol classic 20w50. It was still running with great compression but I switched off about 2 miles after the first knock was apparent....

Any recommendations for the next running in would also be appreciated.
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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by stew79 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:21 am

hi Malcolm, never used a bedding oil in anything ? stick with the 20/50. surprised that rts would blame oil starvation, as they should no better. best get some hardness results and take it from there.
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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by midgie » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:07 pm

I'm looking forward to seeing pics of crankpin and bearing. 'experts' eh?

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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Victor500T » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:02 pm

Sorry, just caught the last several posts on this thread for some reason, so I don;t know anything like the full story. You probably said at some point what the new crankpin/big end bearing was but I haven;t seen it. It wasn't an Alpha Bearings crankpin by any chance? I've known so many of theirs to fail very early on engines such as T Cubs, AJS / Matchless 250/350 'unit' singles to make me swear never to touch one with a bargepole!

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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by midgie » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:17 pm

Victor500T wrote:Sorry, just caught the last several posts on this thread for some reason, so I don;t know anything like the full story. You probably said at some point what the new crankpin/big end bearing was but I haven;t seen it. It wasn't an Alpha Bearings crankpin by any chance? I've known so many of theirs to fail very early on engines such as T Cubs, AJS / Matchless 250/350 'unit' singles to make me swear never to touch one with a bargepole!
Likewise. they could never get the tapers right for a start, what does that say about their attention to detail!

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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Malcolms Lad » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:43 pm

Indeed it was an alpha kit guys.

I was so very nearly convinced it was an error on my part in building it too a tight deadline and such. The more i look into it the less I nowndoubt my own work.

Any recommendations on replacement pin and who to get to reassemble the crank?

I'm in no real hurry but want it done right and to last a few more miles than the last one!
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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by minetymenace » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:21 pm

Malcolms Lad wrote:want it done right
There are others but I'd say Cookie at PES
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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by midgie » Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:30 pm

Malcolms Lad wrote:Indeed it was an alpha kit guys.

I was so very nearly convinced it was an error on my part in building it too a tight deadline and such. The more i look into it the less I nowndoubt my own work.

Any recommendations on replacement pin and who to get to reassemble the crank?

I'm in no real hurry but want it done right and to last a few more miles than the last one!
What was the sludge trap like joe?

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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Malcolms Lad » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:42 pm

Hi Chris,

It was crystal clean mate, I cleaned it myself and sent it to RTS without the plug and re-cleaned and fitted the plug just before assembly.

Joe
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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by midgie » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:10 pm

That's good then Joe, what about the pin, cage and rollers?

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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Malcolms Lad » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:11 pm

I'm yet to split the crank, that's Mondays job... but its definitely totalled.
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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by koncretekid » Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:24 am

Before you started the motor for the first time, did you ensure that the oil pump was primed? I remove the pressure relief valve and turn the motor over until oil exits from this port, per advice I have received. I use roller starters (because I have them) and it sometimes takes an estimated 20-30 seconds of spinning the motor before I see oil. (The oil pump is not very efficient at pumping air.) Kicking it over may take longer.
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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Malcolms Lad » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:06 am

Hi,

Yeah I syringe primed the pump prior to fitting, pre fed the crank and did a multitude of cranks with the plug out too. Also once the plug was in the fabled Mk2 concentric starting procedure eluded me for some hours many more kicks later before the first fire up.

Joe
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Re: 1978 CCM Replica Build

Post by Malcolms Lad » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:06 am

I know how you all love a good splurge of photos, now to consider my options:

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