Converting a B50 to wet sump. (aka Boris Johnson)

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twinshocker
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Re: Converting a B50 to wet sump.

Post by twinshocker »

I guess its not the first frame that you make when i see your equipment ? :thumb
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Re: Converting a B50 to wet sump.

Post by Momus »

It's usually modifications to my own frames Beat.

I work too slowly for bike frame making to be commercially viable.
Last edited by Momus on Fri May 01, 2020 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Converting a B50 to wet sump.

Post by beat »

momus, are you sure the hart ( engine ) will be coming out of the body ( fraim ) of this Boris :?: <201 :shock:
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Re: Converting a B50 to wet sump.

Post by Momus »

I hope so.

Why, do you worry?
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Re: Converting a B50 to wet sump.

Post by beat »

my Cheney looks near on as narrow as yours and it is a pain in the.... to get it in ore out...
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Re: Converting a B50 to wet sump.

Post by Momus »

beat wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:27 pm my Cheney looks near on as narrow as yours and it is a pain in the.... to get it in ore out...
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Ah, ok.

I have given Boris Johnson a bit more vertical clearance than the original B50 frame had and it lifts up and out to the left without drama.

It is narrow at the back for sure. The dampers are canted in noticeably: and the Preston Petty is going to need some heat gun persuasion.
Further forward, what I call the 'B' tubes - the ones behind the engine - are set very wide, which looks a less than elegant. It helped with engine bay room and importantly gives me plenty room for carb and induction.
The head I'm working on is being center ported and with this and the motor's LH bias it gets squeezy with a decent sized carb.

I haven't tested it but my aim was to be able to pull the top end without removing the motor or even loosening engine mount bolts.
Not that it matters but I will report back to you on this <201
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Re: Converting a B50 to wet sump. (aka Boris Johnson)

Post by beat »

yes, - yours has clearly more space above the rocker box. hope it helps!
at the Cheney, I can remove the rear engine brackets, and it is still a mess caused by the narrow frame tubes
DSCN1758.jpeg
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Re: Converting a B50 to wet sump. (aka Boris Johnson)

Post by Momus »

There is a bit more electrically going on there than with mine🤔
Is that a hydraulic slave cylinder?
My B50 has upper and lower rear frame mounts and secondary brackets for the engine; looks like Cheney did similar. Seems a bit odd for production engineer in but things happen because they don't want paint damage during engine installation on the line - which is a good reason for nickel frame plating.
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Re: Converting a B50 to wet sump. (aka Boris Johnson)

Post by beat »

hi momus
Momus wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 6:52 pm Is that a hydraulic slave cylinder?
Bildschirmfoto 2020-05-02 um 20.32.06.png
you mean this thing here ? -- ore something else ?

beat <201
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Re: Converting a B50 to wet sump. (aka Boris Johnson)

Post by Momus »

beat wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 7:36 pm hi momus
Momus wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 6:52 pm Is that a hydraulic slave cylinder?
Bildschirmfoto 2020-05-02 um 20.32.06.png

you mean this thing here ? -- ore something else ?

beat <201
No, the braided line above it heading towards the clutch actuator.
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Re: Converting a B50 to wet sump. (aka Boris Johnson)

Post by beat »

I guess I got it:
DSCN1426.jpeg
DSCN9779.jpeg
DSCN0275.jpeg
yes, a hydraulic clutch cable :mrgreen:
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Re: Converting a B50 to wet sump. (aka Boris Johnson)

Post by Momus »

beat wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 11:07 am I guess I got it:
DSCN1426.jpeg
DSCN9779.jpeg
DSCN0275.jpeg
yes, a hydraulic clutch cable :mrgreen:
beat
Yes. Hymec type.

Did you think about putting a direct acting slave cylinder against the pushrod?
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Re: Converting a B50 to wet sump. (aka Boris Johnson)

Post by minetymenace »

Momus wrote:Did you think about putting a direct acting slave cylinder against the pushrod?
Beast5.jpg
Beast5.jpg (20.54 KiB) Viewed 2551 times
Yep, and did it...not me but on my bike, slave cylinder where the rack was. HPStan has done a few with Itie slave cylinders bolted onto the case.
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Re: Converting a B50 to wet sump. (aka Boris Johnson)

Post by skippy »

minetymenace wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 9:39 pm
Momus wrote:Did you think about putting a direct acting slave cylinder against the pushrod?
Beast5.jpg

Yep, and did it...not me but on my bike, slave cylinder where the rack was. HPStan has done a few with Itie slave cylinders bolted onto the case.
Where is the information on that one?
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Re: Converting a B50 to wet sump. (aka Boris Johnson)

Post by minetymenace »

Hi Skippy, I always wanted a hydraulic clutch so I got Mark Cook to fill one of his cases and bore out a cylinder, piston and O-ring to match and the feed to the cylinder is via the old pinion shaft. Lunatic private life has screwed up my motorcycling for a while, but now have new house, woman and life so should be back on track by the end of the year. :lol: When the garage is finished (target end of June) and the bikes are back, I'll get the camera out.
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Re: Converting a B50 to wet sump. (aka Boris Johnson)

Post by Momus »

Good jobs

They work well for most applications. I've made a few using brake caliper square section seals.

Unfortunately The Boris Johnson will have to do without. Pre 75 rules here make it a no no.
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Re: Converting a B50 to wet sump. (aka Boris Johnson)

Post by beat »

minetymenace wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 9:39 pm Yep, and did it...not me but on my bike, slave cylinder where the rack was.
is looking good minety, - still can't await the beast running....
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Re: Converting a B50 to wet sump. (aka Boris Johnson)

Post by Barry Creary »

Ahh Beat the beast competition will be like Jesus returning to life long awaited and if I see this while I’m still living it will be a miracle :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh
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Re: Converting a B50 to wet sump. (aka Boris Johnson)

Post by minetymenace »

I should apologise to Momus for the inevitable piss taking hijacking of his post.....A challenge to you all: stay alive until the beast is finished, then you can all have a drink on me. He who laughs last laughs loudest you bunch of B&$£&rds :cool:
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Re: Converting a B50 to wet sump. (aka Boris Johnson)

Post by Barry Creary »

Ha ha minety off topic :werd
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Re: Converting a B50 to wet sump. (aka Boris Johnson)

Post by beat »

hi Barry

as I do believe in Jesus returned to live, - who knows as the Beast may be finished one day ?

Miracles happend some time !

- not sure as I am still alive then..... <022 <022

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Converting a B50 to wet sump. (aka Boris Johnson)

Post by Momus »

minetymenace wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 8:54 am I should apologise to Momus for the inevitable piss taking hijacking of his post.....A challenge to you all: stay alive until the beast is finished, then you can all have a drink on me. He who laughs last laughs loudest you bunch of B&$£&rds :cool:
I'll give as good as I get, but thanks.

This project was mooted in 2016 and commenced in 2017 after I bought a B50 and decided it would be better to keep it original (after I've repaired a very poorly executed lay down shock modification on the powder coated frame) and come up with a special.

I was fascinated by the saga of the BSA/ Speedwell titanium frame disaster from the late 60's and thought I'd like to have a go. Despite the paucity of information on the BSA project (details like material grade and tube dimensions etc) it seemed obvious that the frame design and particularly the tubing diameters seem insufficient due to Ti's much greater flexibility for equal tensile strength. Boris was originally going to have a titanium frame- in fact I purchased a load of Grade 9 -4V 2.5Al- tubing for the job from a vendor in the States who specialises in affordable aerospace remainders. For those of technical bent that is the grade of tubing used for higher spec bicycle frames and was originally developed for used as aircraft hydraulic tubing. Long story short the local governing body decided to outlaw the use of titanium frames, swing arms and spindles in 2018 so it was back to using steel tube.

Anyway progress is being made at a fair rate on the chassis and I've been able to find very suitable main components in the shelves and under the benches around the place. Fork, wheels, tank, triple clamps, swingarm and so on owe nothing to BSA. I should have a roughed in roller by the end of the weekend with all the tabs, mounts and weld ons done so I can say it is complete and look at nickel plating without too much fear of having forgot something that will require welding.

The wet sump pump is in and has been shown to pump at sufficient volume. I do have to make the actual sump container, but that will be left. The rest of the engine is planned and underway and extensive cylinder head valve train work has been done. Stay tuned.
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Re: Converting a B50 to wet sump. (aka Boris Johnson)

Post by Momus »

SAM_0462.JPG
skippy wrote: Mon May 04, 2020 2:09 am
minetymenace wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 9:39 pm
Momus wrote:Did you think about putting a direct acting slave cylinder against the pushrod?
Beast5.jpg

Yep, and did it...not me but on my bike, slave cylinder where the rack was. HPStan has done a few with Itie slave cylinders bolted onto the case.
Where is the information on that one?
SAM_0461.JPG
[attachment=1]

Here's one attached to a 1969 Suz uki. Cases required welding and distortion ensued but now fixed.
If you love it, lube it.
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