Today I changed the oil scavenge valve on my B44 victor special. i have been having wet sumping problems and figured that this valve was the easiest to change first.
i tapped a 6mm thread into the valve body and used a bolt and socket to pull it out. I noticed that the pin that stops the ball from being sucked into the oil pump was worn about halfway through from the hammering the ball has given it over the years. So am glad that I changed the valve.
After putting the new valve in , I cleaned the old valve, drove the pin out and hammered the ball into its seat with a copper drift. Then made a new pin from a shaft of a pop rivet and refitted it. Now i have a spare. Although I am hoping that I will never need it.
I some springs and balls on order from England for the anti drain back valve so when they come I will replace that one too.
I am finding that if I leave the bike for more than 3 or 4 days that enough oil returns to the sump that the bike won't start.
It fires but won't run. The cure is to take the sump plug out ( I fitted a new sump plate with a plug) and drain the oil in the sump, Put that oil back in the oil tank and the bike fires up first or second kick.
If I don't drain the oil , I can kick the bike for 20 minutes and it will not run.
Pete
Oil scavenge valve B44
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Mark Cook
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Re: Oil scavenge valve B44
Let's hope you fitted a PES scavenge valve, there are some copies not being made to our standard Pete.
https://pesltd.uk/?product=71-2771
Mark
https://pesltd.uk/?product=71-2771
Mark
Motorcycles and other parts manufactured by PES
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https://www.pesltd.uk (new online shopping experience)
Re: Oil scavenge valve B44
Hi Mark thanks for the reply, I am not sure of the brand, as far as I know it is NOS.
I got it from Peter Quick of BSA unit singles in the US.
Pete
I got it from Peter Quick of BSA unit singles in the US.
Pete
Re: Oil scavenge valve B44
Pete,
Interesting. My B50 wet sumps like all the other BSA's I have owned. Sometimes I cannot see the oil on the dipstick but it starts easily whether the oil is in the frame of in the sump. I do need to put a drain plug in to make draining the oil easy.
Mr Mike
Interesting. My B50 wet sumps like all the other BSA's I have owned. Sometimes I cannot see the oil on the dipstick but it starts easily whether the oil is in the frame of in the sump. I do need to put a drain plug in to make draining the oil easy.
Mr Mike
Re: Oil scavenge valve B44
Hi Mike, thanks for that information.
I may have found the problem with my bike. I pulled the outer timing cover off, to change the oil non return valve, and found that the points cover had quite a lot of oil in it. I am going to change the oil seal on the camshaft. My bike has an electronic ignition, but still I don't think oil floating around in there is good for it.
I am thinking that maybe draining the sump, when it was wet sumping was draining some of the oil out of the points chamber.
It did backfire a bit when I tried starting it with oil in the sump, but once the oil was drained out it just started as normal.
I was having trouble figuring out how oil in the sump would stop it from running. I can only guess that the terminal block that the wires joined at was getting drowned in oil and it must have been conductive enough to prevent the spark from being good enough to run. The engine would kick once, there was spark but it would not keep running until I drained the oil.
I will find out when I get a couple of oil seals and put it back together later in the week.
Cheers
Pete
I may have found the problem with my bike. I pulled the outer timing cover off, to change the oil non return valve, and found that the points cover had quite a lot of oil in it. I am going to change the oil seal on the camshaft. My bike has an electronic ignition, but still I don't think oil floating around in there is good for it.
I am thinking that maybe draining the sump, when it was wet sumping was draining some of the oil out of the points chamber.
It did backfire a bit when I tried starting it with oil in the sump, but once the oil was drained out it just started as normal.
I was having trouble figuring out how oil in the sump would stop it from running. I can only guess that the terminal block that the wires joined at was getting drowned in oil and it must have been conductive enough to prevent the spark from being good enough to run. The engine would kick once, there was spark but it would not keep running until I drained the oil.
I will find out when I get a couple of oil seals and put it back together later in the week.
Cheers
Pete
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Mark Cook
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Re: Oil scavenge valve B44
The ball and spring you found behind the outer cover is only to hold oil in the crank to help to prevent a dry start. It has little to do with draining back.
There should be a very small hole in the gearbox cover allowing oil to drain into the timing chest. Due to the height of the hole some oil will remain behind the outer cover.
I expect most of the oil draining back will be coming from the oil pump spindle.
Wet sumping happens when you are riding. Draining back happens when you are not.
Mark
There should be a very small hole in the gearbox cover allowing oil to drain into the timing chest. Due to the height of the hole some oil will remain behind the outer cover.
I expect most of the oil draining back will be coming from the oil pump spindle.
Wet sumping happens when you are riding. Draining back happens when you are not.
Mark
Motorcycles and other parts manufactured by PES
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Re: Oil scavenge valve B44
Pete,
If you have oil up in the points cavity, it could surely affect starting. The only time I have trouble starting mine is after a long ride and a shut down for about five minutes. I think the hot engine vaporizes gas in the carb and manifold so quickly that it makes for a difficult start. I have a very reliable starting procedure that took me a long time to figure out. Send me an email and I'll forward it to you. My B-50 started this spring on the second kick after setting all winter in my shed. It would have started on the first kick if i had the throttle stop where it should have been.
Good luck, 441's are nice old bikes. Enough power to ride most roads, agile, simple, and my idea about what a bike should be.
Mr Mike
If you have oil up in the points cavity, it could surely affect starting. The only time I have trouble starting mine is after a long ride and a shut down for about five minutes. I think the hot engine vaporizes gas in the carb and manifold so quickly that it makes for a difficult start. I have a very reliable starting procedure that took me a long time to figure out. Send me an email and I'll forward it to you. My B-50 started this spring on the second kick after setting all winter in my shed. It would have started on the first kick if i had the throttle stop where it should have been.
Good luck, 441's are nice old bikes. Enough power to ride most roads, agile, simple, and my idea about what a bike should be.
Mr Mike
Re: Oil scavenge valve B44
Pete
You say you replaced the sump cover. Are you sure the new cover is deep enough? If not the ball could be resting on the bottom of the cover and therefore not sealing.
I know that my B50T sump cover is deeper than other model BSA sump covers.
Doesn't really explain the starting issue...
Jim
You say you replaced the sump cover. Are you sure the new cover is deep enough? If not the ball could be resting on the bottom of the cover and therefore not sealing.
I know that my B50T sump cover is deeper than other model BSA sump covers.
Doesn't really explain the starting issue...
Jim
Re: Oil scavenge valve B44
Hi Jim, yes the new sump cover is deeper than the old one, it also has a magnet in it to catch metal particles. I thought the magnet was pretty long so cut it back a bit so that it would not interfere with the sump valve.
I have replaced the drain back valve in the timing cover now and will put a speedy sleeve on the camshaft as it does not look to be in perfect condition.
I am leaning towards the oil getting past the camshaft oil seal into the points area ( which now has the pickup for the electronic ignition).
There was a terminal block there to join the wiring that was soaked in oil.
So tomorrow I will put a new camshaft oil seal in , and a new kickstarter seal.
Then put it back together. Hopefully that will fix the problem.
Thanks Mike, I have a pretty good starting procedure going now. The bike usually starts on the second kick from cold and often first kick when warm.
I did have a bike many years ago that had trouble starting when hot ( XT600 Y*maha) my solution for it was to put a pipe onto the inlet manifold vacuum port and a small valve that I could open to lean the mixture out to start it. That worked great. One the hot start valve was open it started very easily, then I closed the valve and we were away.
Thankyou for your support and ideas
Pete
I have replaced the drain back valve in the timing cover now and will put a speedy sleeve on the camshaft as it does not look to be in perfect condition.
I am leaning towards the oil getting past the camshaft oil seal into the points area ( which now has the pickup for the electronic ignition).
There was a terminal block there to join the wiring that was soaked in oil.
So tomorrow I will put a new camshaft oil seal in , and a new kickstarter seal.
Then put it back together. Hopefully that will fix the problem.
Thanks Mike, I have a pretty good starting procedure going now. The bike usually starts on the second kick from cold and often first kick when warm.
I did have a bike many years ago that had trouble starting when hot ( XT600 Y*maha) my solution for it was to put a pipe onto the inlet manifold vacuum port and a small valve that I could open to lean the mixture out to start it. That worked great. One the hot start valve was open it started very easily, then I closed the valve and we were away.
Thankyou for your support and ideas
Pete
Re: Oil scavenge valve B44
So far so good, I fitted the speedy sleeve to the camshaft, put a new seal on. Replaced the rotor and timing cover. I did not like all the silicon that was used on the outer timing cover so made a paper gasket for it. That seems to be working well too, no leaks.
Fortunately I still have a strobe light so did the static timing , started the engine and set the timing.
I am yet to take it out on the road, but it starts well now, and no oil is getting into the points cover.
I found that my bike has a Boyer ignition setup. So the tech section here was helpful in seeing how to set it up right.
Next non rainy day the bike and I will be out on the dirt roads again
Cheers and thanks for the help
Pete
Fortunately I still have a strobe light so did the static timing , started the engine and set the timing.
I am yet to take it out on the road, but it starts well now, and no oil is getting into the points cover.
I found that my bike has a Boyer ignition setup. So the tech section here was helpful in seeing how to set it up right.
Next non rainy day the bike and I will be out on the dirt roads again
Cheers and thanks for the help
Pete