new amal carbs, not ready to bolt on

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new amal carbs, not ready to bolt on

Postby 2manyrides » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:04 pm

Looking for a tip on what to look for to make tickling possable. Over the last month I've bought two new amals. A 930 and the other a 932.
Both carbs had poor quality control and need a complete going over.
Some of the problems were;
1) poor casting of the body (void in the aluminum pour)
2) both slides, and another new extra slide, had leftover "slag" in the needle, cable area. They failed to clean out the area after casting. This causes the cable and needle not to seat properly together. The first sign was a loss of freeplay after assembly. and the second sign something was wrong, erratic throttle response. (It's a wonder it started)
3) At 200 miles, the 932 float decided to completely fill with gas.
4) unscrew the jet assembly to find leftovers from the thread cutting right up there by the main jet.
5) on the 930, they just didn't screw the jet assembly tight enough together. Found that laying down in the bowl.

You would expect them to be ready for service, but disassemble and inspect closely!

Now, the current question, if anyone has a tip. My 932 on the TR5MX just wont prime. I have opened the gas cap, turned on both petcocks. Held it down for extended periods. bottomed the plunger repeatedly in it's travel.
Nothing seems to actualy flood the bowl.
I have noticed that new carbs with the big tickler are not coming with the little breather hole below the plunger. Is that hole to let air escape?
Is the ferrele not reaching the float to open the seat?
Or there is an air lock.

Oh it has successfuly tickled before, but I don't have twenty minutes available each morning. She's warm now so I'll take another spin.
Thank's, John
72 B50SS bought in 74, I'm the second owner
74 TR5MX bought in 77-new, I'm the original owner

Which one to ride today?
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Postby xto » Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:34 am

I purchased a new 932 (thankfully @ a very reasonable price) and noted pretty much the same type of quality control. Shoddy casting, general sloppiness of assembly and finish. The needle retaining clip is obviously hand hammered- leading me to believe this carb was made in India. Some are also being made in Spain and are of relatively better quality. I have not yet mounted the carb,but replaced the float with a known one from the carb box, needle, needle clip, needle jet and main. Basically I rebulit my "new" Amal, payting the attention to detail it orignally deserved.
I purchased another 930 for my '68 Shooting Star (which I've since sold) from Ed V. and it was flawless from the git- go.
There is a new kid on the block in the alternative carb market. On piled-arms.com ther is currently a thread touting a "JRC carb, a modifacation of the Kehin PWK famiy of carbs." 30mm $116.00 U.S. plug-n-play.
Anybody on this board got any expieience/info?
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Postby minetymenace » Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:49 am

Couldn't find piled-arms.com!

I guess the answer is to get a carb off someone who sells proper bits, cheap bits give you stiff neck, but whenever I have had bits off Ed V they have had a propensity to make another part of my anatomy go rigid.

Jap tools are traditionally left unfinished, relying on the craftsman to add the final touch, it is probably worth examining any replacement part, but missing off several stages of production is not what we expect in this neck of the woods.

The consequential stiffness or flaccidity of the neck or the wood being directly related to the reputation or notoriety of the supplier. :???:
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Postby Mr Mike » Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:43 pm

I bought a new 932 from this guy in Virginia. He has afarm out there and speaks with a British accent. It was in a new Amal box that was quite faded so it may have been on the shelf for a long time. I didn't have to do a thing to it and it runs on my B50 now for a couple of years.

I have heard a lot of complaints about new Amals and quality control. Haven't seen it myself. but can imagine the frustration when a new carb does not do right.

On the problem of not tickling the carb. I have has one of those before. If the carb runs ok other then flooding for starting, it is likely that the plunger is not depressing the float enough open the needle valve. Might have to do a little work on the plunger to get it to reach the float.

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Postby 2manyrides » Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:03 am

Thanks mike, That's the kind of advice I needed. And before I got back to read these responses. I indeed looked at every old carb I had to determine the length that the tickler extends. On older original style small plunger types they all were spot on, exactly the same as each other. On a new 930 with the big plunger the travel is about 1/16th to 1/8th inch less. I also tried to figure by ear if the float was being depressed. It sounds like the plunger is touching the float. Whitout a glass floatboal how can I check?
Any one know how to extend the tickler's a little?
Oh, even though one of the new carbs was from ebay, the other was from a reputable wholsale distributor. Yet may have come from the same batch. And the extra slide I bought at Rabers in San Jose.
John
72 B50SS bought in 74, I'm the second owner
74 TR5MX bought in 77-new, I'm the original owner

Which one to ride today?
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Postby Mr Mike » Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:55 am

Too Many,
You might try to cut away part of a old bowl enough to see what's going on.

Mike
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Postby 2manyrides » Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:54 pm

mike,
Exactly my thought. However I would like to see it with gas in it to determine operation at full bowl level. I suppose I could cut away just a bit at the gasket level in order to peer in and get a veiw of what is going on. A glass bowl would be nice!

Any ideas on how to extend the plunger's length? Can it be pulled down a bit? Another thought might be to fashion an extension to jam up into the ferrele.
John
72 B50SS bought in 74, I'm the second owner
74 TR5MX bought in 77-new, I'm the original owner

Which one to ride today?
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Postby CDB50MX » Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:15 pm

XTO ,
I have used the JRC carbs on my 1977 Triumph 750 Bonneville for almost a year and other than some slight jetting changes these carbs were a direct bolt on and worked flawlessly . The bike now starts first kick , idles nicely and has more power at a cost a lot less than new Amals . The carb quality is good , but they do look oriental in design . No more sticking slides , no more tickling , no sinking floats , use your factory cable , just kick her over and go .

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Postby minetymenace » Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:34 pm

For info JRC found here
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Postby Mr Mike » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:46 am

Do they make a JRC with a 32 mm inlet and the same 2 inch stud spacing as a B44/50. What is the diameter of the air filter side? I have had no luck cold starting my B44 which has a 32mm Mikuni with an enricher lever. Maybe I need a larger enricher jet???? Hot starting is a one kick deal and performance is otherwise great with the Mik.

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JRC PWK carbs

Postby c55427 » Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:38 am

On my '70 TR25W and my '56 Norton, I run the new amals. I've noticed that the tickling action on the '70 takes forever. I guess I'm more patient.

One thing about JRC PWK carbs, I noticed that on the one I just got, the flange that bolts to the head had sunlight between it and the carb. With the rubber o-ring, the air tightness would be questionable.
Notice this picture of it: http://piled-arms.com/jrc-rt.jpg
There is suppose to be a ton of sealant there. Mine had very little. So be sure to double check.

The choke plunger is pretty neat on the PWK carb, is up for choke on?
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Postby CDB50MX » Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:43 pm

Chris ,

One of my major concerns with the JRC carb was the flange , but with well over a years use , I have not had a problem with air leaks . If you can see light between the flange and carb body , I would assume there's a problem . JRC is local to me , I'll call and see what they say about the gap . Yes, choke is pull up for on .

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Postby beat » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:12 pm

hi chris,
your picture of this carbi and its flange is bringing me to a idea I was surching for my Mik.
thanks !
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Postby ebsbury » Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:51 pm

There's a recent thread on the general BritBike Forum that seems to deal with Concentric tickler problems pretty comprehensively.

I ordered a new 930 carb direct from Burlen Fuel Systems (who own Amal) a couple of months ago and it's been excellent. Starting is now first kick, the bike runs smoother, and power and pick-up are much improved (which is what I'd expect replacing a clapped carb with a new one). The casting is also way better than the tired old Concentrics on my Bonnie.

As Burlen are reasonably close I went and collected it in person. I knew they'd re-introduced the Monobloc but I didn't realise that in the last couple of years since they took over Amal they've also re-introduced pre-monoblocs and TT and GP carbs, and had just introduced new tooling for their Mark 1 Concentrics. They've been making SU carbs for years but the guys I spoke to were really enthusiastic about, and had obviously spent a lot of time around British bikes. They did complain about the problems they have with pattern Amal parts so maybe e-bay isn't the best place to buy new spares!

Over the years I've got in the habit of counting when I'm tickling Amals. (Saves fuel when you know they're about to flood, and it's a useful trick in the dark coming back from the pub.) The counts have varied from 4 (Monoblocs on a 64 Bonnie), to 14 on the clapped Concentric I took off the B50, and around 8 on the new carb.

Looking at that picture of the JRC carb, is it just me, or is something held on with two grub screws and a handful of sealant a bit of a lashup?
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Postby Mark Cook » Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:49 pm

Hello and welcome Ebsbury. I've also tried dealing with burlen and I've not been as lucky as you. Also the pricing wasn't to good either. As for cheap imports, they get most of thier stuff made in china. So Amal has been made in spain, germany and now china :lol:

It's daft that I can get better prices from someone they also supply too :!:

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