Electric Start

Here you can talk about all kind of TECH for the B50 B44 B25 And Other BSA unit Singles

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:32 pm

beat wrote: drawings of the two missing axles . the one for gear Z 8 and Z 5 / Z 4
V1 Axle Z 8.pdf
(638.69 KiB) Downloaded 135 times
<216

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:43 pm

V1 Axle Z 5 Z 4 .pdf
(916.91 KiB) Downloaded 120 times
V2 Axle Z 5 Z4 .pdf
(715.57 KiB) Downloaded 118 times
hallo mark,
wich Version is easier ( cheaper ) to make ??
I would prefer the V2, the one with the bush and Axle in separate....

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Re: Electric Start

Post by crankbuster » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:22 am

Z4 Z5 aXLE.JPG

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Re: Electric Start

Post by Mark Cook » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:52 pm

About to start cutting steel Beat. Gear diameter 128.0mm Pitch diameter 124.0mm Base diameter 116.522mm Root diameter 119.372mm
Fingers and Toes crossed ;-)
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Re: Electric Start

Post by Mark Cook » Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:14 pm

Op1.
SprocketV2.jpg
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:52 pm

Mark Cook wrote:About to start cutting steel
great mark, - this sounds for as it will have a shorter time of delivery than the last one :!:
Mark Cook wrote:Fingers and Toes crossed
and evan if it gos wrong because of a fault of Beat - you know as you will get the money for it !

beat :thumb

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:12 pm

hallo crankbuster

have you seen as there is a version V 2 Axle Z 5 / Z 4
this Version is using the same inner axle as the one for the Z 8.
just the bushing to place the gear Z 5 / Z 4 is added.
this version is giving more possibilities for adjusting the aligning for the gears Z2/Z3 - Z5/Z4 and Z6.

I would prefer to work with this ...

beat <212

( BTW, if V 1 would be made, it needs to have a hole of 8 mm in side ) :ok

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Re: Electric Start

Post by Mark Cook » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:06 pm

It's not about the money Beat, though costs need to be covered. I like to make things for those that deserve it, sadly the toys needed are very expensive.
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:24 pm

yes mark, - as every work costs its price.

this is just fair

:idea:

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Re: Electric Start

Post by Mark Cook » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:07 pm

Op.4
Beat1.jpg
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:08 pm

<201
looks a bit like the additional flywheel of a Falcone <017 <017

but we will se at the end.....

keep going the good work mark please <209

:grin: :grin:

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Re: Electric Start

Post by Mark Cook » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:40 pm

Closer :cool:
Beat2.jpg
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:10 pm

.....<209

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Wed May 10, 2017 9:32 pm

DSCN0024.jpg
the gear no 9
I hold it in my hand!!!
DSCN0023.jpg
Flywheel Gear V2.4
and it corresponds exactly with the drawings !!

WELL DONE MARK :!: :!:

soon it will go in to the prim drive....

beat <1010 :cool:

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Re: Electric Start

Post by nopdog » Wed May 17, 2017 1:03 am

Hi Beat
Over the Easter holidays I was at the Broadford Classic Bike Bonanza in Victoria and what did I see?
IMG_0507.JPG
IMG_0508.JPG
IMG_0509.JPG
IMG_0510.JPG
IMG_0511.JPG
IMG_0512.JPG
IMG_0513.JPG
. Probably best to private message me for his details. He's an engineer by trade said it wasn't that hard but did have to machine new cases plus a spacer. Sorry I lost him on the technical side of things. Told him about you and the forum and he said he would be willing to talk if you want.

Regards
Simon

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Re: Electric Start

Post by Jack Gifford » Wed May 17, 2017 6:20 am

Starter mod looks very neat.

I like how he got the pegs back where they belong. ;-)
"Motley" bike history: Horex 400, 1940 HD 45 FH, HD Baja 100, '49 Indian Scout 440, Victor 441 Roadster, H*nda TL125, Guzzi V50, H*nda FT500, 400-4, NX250
Aside from bikes: known as the "guru" of M/T hemi Pontiacs

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Wed May 17, 2017 9:28 pm

Hi simon,

yes, a neat solution for the electric starter.
I guess it is dough fraser ore something the name of the gentleman was building it.
congratulation to him for he's way of doing it.

but: my target is a other one, as I said in above:
my el. start must be a add on, - no cases modified, no internal parts have to go on the bench.

the only mods will be done on the primary drive side, means the engine can stay in the fraim when the ad on starter getting in place.

so, - there on I am, and it looks not so bad by now,

beat :lol:

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Re: Electric Start

Post by roadplough » Thu May 18, 2017 2:57 pm

Jack Gifford wrote:I like how he got the pegs back where they belong.
Yes, but looks like the old shin-tickling kick start problem remains.
beat wrote:my el. start must be a add on,
:thumb


Good to see some photos of Doug's latest, at last, not much about officially, as yet.
In issue 64 of Old Bike Australasia mag there's a photo of him arriving on this bike at the 12th BSA National Rally held at Beaudesert, QLD in October 2016 (followed in by what might be Steve M's B50 judging by the tank stripe), the caption goes:
"Doug Fraser arrives after his marathon from Melbourne."
Melbourne to Beaudesert is over 1600km by the shortest route (Newell Hwy), indeed a marathon on knobby tyres <216

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Thu May 18, 2017 8:45 pm

roadplough wrote:1600km by the shortest route (Newell Hwy), indeed a marathon on knobby tyres
:thumb :thumb

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Re: Electric Start

Post by skippy » Thu May 18, 2017 11:09 pm

Oh yee of short memory. Dougs bike was pictured in the 40th all British rally viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7090
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Re: Electric Start

Post by nopdog » Fri May 19, 2017 6:53 am

And there was I thinking, wait till I get this on the forum, stop the presses hold the phone, eureka, good thing I've got photographic evidence. Oh well.

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Re: Electric Start

Post by kommando » Fri May 19, 2017 9:25 am

Nopdog, sent you a PM.

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Re: Electric Start

Post by skippy » Fri May 19, 2017 11:49 pm

nopdog wrote:And there was I thinking, wait till I get this on the forum, stop the presses hold the phone, eureka, good thing I've got photographic evidence. Oh well.
My apologies for spoiling your fun. Loved the humorous reply it gave me a good laugh. :laugh Apologies Beat for invading your topic.
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Sun May 21, 2017 8:15 pm

hi all,

the flywheel gear ( No. 9 , Version 2.4) is fitted and engine is running with.
DSCN0026.jpg
additional 62 teeth for el. starter device
but there was a unknown problem coming along.....
DSCN0031.jpg
blueprint the clutch pressure plate
by pulling clutch, the PES pressure plate was touching the old CCM cover at the inside .
this may be because I do use 6 friction plates in my basket and the measurements of the 44 year old CCM primary cover are not made to cop with this mods....
DSCN0035.jpg
the inside of the CCM cover
after grinding off some material at the cover and cutting 1.5 mm off the pressure plate the clutch was working ( disengaging ) properly like before.
DSCN0036.jpg
smal mod on the pressure plate
a first test run was showing everything ok, evan the generator was supplying the el circuit properly.
so the fitting the stator to the cover in state of fitting it to the crankcase seams to work fine as well.

just one negative point it shows again: this old cover is leaking oil right trough the cast :!:

<022

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:30 pm

I did some more welding work on my primary cover to get it oil tight.
The adjusting of the stator, centering to the rotor, is easier to do as in original.
DSCN0066.jpg
using four feeling gauges by 0.40mm
and the most important thing : IT IS NOT LEACKING OIL ANYMORE
<1005 <1005 <1005

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:53 pm

Last week I had visitors here, Mark and Anita from PES.
they said, my gears are on the production.....

and it is just in time because I am on this project two:
DSCN0317.jpg
start building the box for the gearing
DSCN0318.jpg
a alu- bar 70mm by 12 mm by 245mm needed...
beat <216

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Re: Electric Start

Post by minetymenace » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:19 pm

This fell off an aeroplane (don't ask),how about 242mm? yours for the price of posting beat (about 4.5kg!!)
IMG_3785.JPG
I have a feeling you are going to ask me to slice a bit off!!
There is no evidence to support the notion that life is serious.
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:24 pm

thank you minety, but I try to build a starter device for a old motorcycle and not one for a B50 Bomber.... :grin:

so it gos like this:
DSCN0320.jpg
sawing a pice of alu
DSCN0323.jpg
grinding it for the shape it fits the plan
DSCN0326.jpg
cut out the sidecase ( with some help as to see )
next will be, welding it in place and then cutout the cover as market...

beat <216

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:30 pm

DSCN0328.jpg
first pice of gearbox weledet and cover in place...
DSCN0329.jpg
to close to the barrel fin, needs small cut....
DSCN0330.jpg
a idea of the next step, say cutout...
beat <213

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Re: Electric Start

Post by twinshocker » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:48 pm

I found this thread today and read all the 12 pages.... :shock:
All i can say is

I AM IMPRESSED !!!!

Looking forward how the story ends :thumb

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Re: Electric Start

Post by minetymenace » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:18 pm

beat's B50 story never ends. <069 <1010 :cool:
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Re: Electric Start

Post by Barry Creary » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:27 pm

Hopefully a happy ending :ban :ban :ban :thumb

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Re: Electric Start

Post by AJ CCM » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:57 am

minetymenace wrote:beat's B50 story never ends. <069 <1010 :cool:
What about 778
Regards AJ CCM

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Re: Electric Start

Post by minetymenace » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:40 pm

That's another story all together....
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:42 pm

twinshocker wrote:Looking forward how the story ends
the question is not : HOW IT ENDS, no , - because it will end with a electric starter on my B50 .

the question is : WHEN IT WILL END

for the next step I do need the gears made by PES and some more alu bars from alu-verkauf.de .

so for now, - I have to wait.........
<203

BTW, the next days I have to solv a bit a strange problem on my project:
by mod the cover for fitting the stator to the cover I was using a " tool " for centering the new plait.
DSCN0085.jpg
centering tool
DSCN0086.jpg
plate on tool
DSCN0089.jpg
centering tool in position
DSCN0090.jpg
plate in place ready for welding
DSCN0081.jpg
bevor welding
DSCN0124.jpg
after the first weld
DSCN0270.jpg
set stator gap trough the window
yes, it is no problem to set stator in perfect place, but this " window" is NOT exactly in the center of the flywheel !
but I do need this centering spot on by let say 0.05 mm. because the gear Nr. 8 must be 90.177 mm above this flywheel center.

hmmmmm, let se what the next days are bringing....

beat <212

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Re: Electric Start

Post by minetymenace » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:17 pm

So what you thinking beat? Some sort of fly cutter/reamer/borer centred on the crank?
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Re: Electric Start

Post by twinshocker » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:47 pm

beat wrote:.........
but I do need this centering spot on by let say 0.05 mm. because the gear Nr. 8 must be 90.177 mm above this flywheel center.

hmmmmm, let se what the next days are bringing....

beat <212
Why do you need the hole in the cover for that measurement ?
Can´t you use a Zirkel ( cannot find the english word for it) in the centering hole of the crank with the axle distance to mark the position ?

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Re: Electric Start

Post by stew79 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:12 pm

beat, you must have access to mill ? with out this you cant bore all the holes for the other gears, bearings etc ? clamp the left crank case on the mill and clock up the bearing. put the clutch case on (this must be doweled for location) then you can bore the access hole in line with the crank. then index over to the other hole centers.
stew

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:13 pm

hi minety,
minetymenace wrote:Some sort of fly cutter
this is what I am dreaming ( making ) of...
needs a other day...
twinshocker wrote:Why do you need the hole in the cover for that measurement ?
Can´t you use a Zirkel ( cannot find the english word for it) in the centering hole of the crank with the axle distance to mark the position ?
I got it" Zirkel ", yeas, but it all is making it with a " parallaxe ", so it is not exactly enough...
stew79 wrote: you must have access to mill
yeas, I do have access to a " mill " ( drill ). but it is a hobby - machine, very small and cheap :oops:

as my cover is positioned with 3 dowels to the crankcase, means if the crank center is set, all the rest can be done with indexing as you say stew.

BTW, dos anyone have made some experience with CFK ( the carbon stuff ) been used on a engine ?
resistance in temperature, - resistance for Oil, fuel, vibrations :?: :?:

beat <017

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Re: Electric Start

Post by stew79 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:07 am

hi beat, for the benefit of this very well thought out, but complicated project, i think you must do all these holes etc on a proper accurate mill, or get a machine shop to do it for you. to spoil it with errors in the position of things (or even the head not being square on your drill) will be very disappointing. a normal machine shop can bore the holes to precise position, size and depth. (i presume there are 2 rows of blind holes that take the bearings ? that must be in line)
stew
ps or ask Santa for a bigger mill, with some good tooling ? :thumb

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