Electric Start

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twinshocker
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Re: Electric Start

Post by twinshocker »

beat wrote:..........

I got it" Zirkel ", yeas, but it all is making it with a " parallaxe ", so it is not exactly enough...
Ok then you need a special device : two needles with different hights and a rod between so you can do your parallaxeausgleich
Can be made
beat wrote:........
BTW, dos anyone have made some experience with CFK ( the carbon stuff ) been used on a engine ?
resistance in temperature, - resistance for Oil, fuel, vibrations :?: :?:
Some BMW bikes ( HP2Sport ) have valve covers of carbon , seems to work.
What are you planninng ? :shock:
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Re: Electric Start

Post by twinshocker »

But the easiest way would be as follows:

- screw the clutch cover onto the left hand crankcase
- clamp the whole thing onto a decent milling machine
- through your big hole in the cover you have acces to the main bearing, take this center as "Zero"
- from the CAD drawing you have the exact coordinates of the holes to be drilled and you can do this easily
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

hi twin
twinshocker wrote:- clamp the whole thing onto a decent milling machine
ha ha, --- when I do this, I can NOT SEE the little milling machine anymore :lol: :lol: :lol:

but for today:
the cutter on the way....
the cutter on the way....
ready for cutting
ready for cutting
here it gos......( manualy )
here it gos......( manualy )
DSCN0336.jpg
mesurements not as good as it should be but the rest will be done by math's
put some first lines on it as on the paper...
put some first lines on it as on the paper...
making some space now for the gears....
making some space now for the gears....
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

twinshocker wrote:Some BMW bikes ( HP2Sport ) have valve covers of carbon , seems to work.
What are you planninng ?
the big hole was closed until now with a cover made by alu.
old style cup
old style cup
it seals radial with a O ring, total thickness around 10 mm.
as I have to made a new one for the 2mm bigger hole, I will go the route with this CFK material.
see what is coming out on it...

same the front plate of the starter gearbox: I will give this CFK a go....

not sure it will end with success <017 <017

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Re: Electric Start

Post by stew79 »

beat, no gift from santa ? (bottom of page 12 ?)
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

hi stew
stew79 wrote:ask Santa for a bigger mill, with some good tooling
santa says: bag ( wallet ) much to small for such a gift, - I should rasp the thing by hand if I am not to lazy.... :cry:

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Re: Electric Start

Post by twinshocker »

but i like your hand-operated cutter !! :thumb
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

twinshocker wrote:i like your hand-operated cutter
thanks twin, - there is almost a solution for a problem.....

now I am on to prepare the ( gear ) box...
&quot; windows &quot; system.....
" windows " system.....
DSCN0340.jpg
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Re: Electric Start

Post by twinshocker »

Questions:

All the wheels are on the outside of this aluminium part right ?
Will they have bearings on both sides, so there will be a second alupart on the outside ?
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

twinshocker wrote:All the wheels are on the outside of this aluminium part right ?
yeas.
twinshocker wrote:Will they have bearings on both sides,
yeas, they will have needle bearings on each side.
twinshocker wrote:so there will be a second alupart on the outside ?
hopefully a kevlar - part. ( CFK )
if it is to difficult to machine, I will go for alu.....

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

hi all

making today a boss and a clamp to fixate the starter motor to the rear of the new gearboxy
DSCN0343.jpg
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

whilst wayting for the gears from PES:

material : 35mm / 6mm Alu
gearbox build
gearbox build
bit by bit...
bit by bit...
on the way to... ( not L.A. :oops: )
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

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allways fallowing the same road: first made a pattern out of a pice of paper and as next the pice of metal
part of the box
part of the box
next is: bending it to fit the place
next is: bending it to fit the place
do the welding
do the welding
where not much is needed, just add some wire...
where not much is needed, just add some wire...
from the inside
from the inside
one part in place, grinding and file the welding in to a "close to shape"
some more parts are ready....
some more parts are ready....
this is how it comes- ready to weld...
this is how it comes- ready to weld...
will do the welding a other day, - but planing the next steps ahead....
new cover for the Big Hole
new cover for the Big Hole
and the front plate.....
and the front plate.....
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Re: Electric Start

Post by twinshocker »

How thick is that carbon plate ?
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Re: Electric Start

Post by minetymenace »

Are the gears supported both sides beat? That is; are you putting bearings in that bit of plastic?
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

twinshocker wrote:How thick is that carbon plate ?
the one I made the Big Hole cover out of it is 9 MM
it is to saw....
it is to saw....
drilling and grinding is doable as well...
drilling and grinding is doable as well...
minetymenace wrote:Are the gears supported both sides beat? That is; are you putting bearings in that bit of plastic?
sure minety, - since I drive a car wich is hold together compleately by this plastic, I do trust it a bit more.... <212

:lol:

BTW, this other side , the plastic one, is 11.2 MM thick.

beat :mrgreen:
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Re: Electric Start

Post by minetymenace »

I've heard all about your plastic car beat, you need the plastic to keep the electrons in, :shock:
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Re: Electric Start

Post by twinshocker »

beat wrote:
twinshocker wrote:How thick is that carbon plate ?
...............
BTW, this other side , the plastic one, is 11.2 MM thick.

beat :mrgreen:
Are you planning to glue or laminate some bushings into the CFK ?
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Re: Electric Start

Post by koncretekid »

minetymenace wrote:I've heard all about your plastic car beat, you need the plastic to keep the electrons in, :shock:
Not to mention - - the smoke!
life's uncertain - go fast now
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

twinshocker wrote:Are you planning to glue or laminate some bushings into the CFK ?
not bushings, - needle bearings it will be at some axles and just the axles it will be at other places.
koncretekid wrote:Not to mention - - the smoke!
the smoke should come from the rear tire, - not from the plastic ( CFK ) nor from the exhaust nor the electronics.... ;-)

was busy today:
on the table drill
on the table drill
indexing the holes
indexing the holes
then, preheating for welding
then, preheating for welding
lots of edges and corners
lots of edges and corners
welding nearly done....
welding nearly done....
and put the little carbon plate on to the lathe...
bloody hard stuff, - HSS cutters do not last long....
bloody hard stuff, - HSS cutters do not last long....
a close look at the surface:
a close look at the surface:
as the machined surface is very rough by the fibre laiers, I need to " seal " with something.
: instant glue ore something the like ??

any thoughts :?:

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

minetymenace wrote:I've heard all about your plastic car
hi minety,

after trusting in weldings, screws bolts and nuts for more than 60 years it feels a bit strange in a glued plastic car, yes.

but this what the thing can do is totally surprising in a pleasant way :lol: :!: :cool: :!:

:thumb :thumb
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Re: Electric Start

Post by twinshocker »

beat wrote:........

as the machined surface is very rough by the fibre laiers, I need to " seal " with something.
: instant glue ore something the like ??

any thoughts :?:

beat <212
I would use Epoxy ( Zweikomponenten Epoxydharz und Härter) , the structure of the CFK is "open" now from the machining and it can soak the liquid epoxy in and that prevents fraying
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Re: Electric Start

Post by minetymenace »

twinshocker wrote:I would use Epoxy ( Zweikomponenten Epoxydharz und Härter) , the structure of the CFK is "open" now from the machining and it can soak the liquid epoxy in and that prevents fraying
You took the words out of my mouth (well the English ones anyway). <200
beat wrote:what the thing can do is totally surprising
You "surprised" a little bit of poo out of Anita!!
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

DSCN0384.jpg
startet the millingwork on this housing now : very time consuming....

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

addet some more material by welding and spend a half day on the mill
the sealing surfaces
the sealing surfaces
making the place for the gaskets flat and in parallel
DSCN0388.jpg
nine screws having a boss now
nine screws having a boss now
thinking of a O-ring seal for this geartrain ....

<017 <017

any ideas :?: :?:
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Re: Electric Start

Post by minetymenace »

Yes, O ring as it will be hard to control the end float on the gears with a gasket....still worried about the plastic, what about coefficient of expansion? Will it warp as you have a bi-metal strip on your primary drive (well metal /plastic anyway)...

And I think I'd put a web between the clutch cover (9 o'clock) and the alternator cover (3 o'clock), just to give it a bit of added rigidity.....and maybe a hole in the clutch cover to adjust the clutch, as adjusting the clutch is now going to be a real nut and bolt exercise!
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

minetymenace wrote:Yes, O ring as it will be hard to control the end float on the gears with a gasket
I am not worry about the end float, but a proper sealing I am after... we will see....
minetymenace wrote:.and maybe a hole in the clutch cover to adjust the clutch, as adjusting the clutch is now going to be a real nut and bolt exercise!
do you mean this hole in the center of the clutch ??
if so, - I never ever used this place to adjust the clutch, so I closed it by welding the last winter. - not missed it anyway. :uhu
boss fault
boss fault
have some space problem.... find out as this boss is in a wrong position!

it is getting more and more narrow... <201
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

Working on a ugly point of the project:
the groove, the space for the return spring for Z 8
the groove, the space for the return spring for Z 8
I could not do this before indexing the axle enters. And now I can not reach it all the way by a 4mm miller. ( 5 mm deepness )
handwork is required....
handwork is required....
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Re: Electric Start

Post by minetymenace »

How about a fly cutter?
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

minetymenace wrote:How about a fly cutter?
guess a fly cutter means a "Einmesser".
I was thinking about, but space for this tool is very rarely, so, - one little mistake in handling and it distroys the cover... :cry:
will do the rest with the little rasp........................................ <006

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Re: Electric Start

Post by *beezergeezer* »

To my recollection some early vintage cars had a "dyno starter" A dynamo the would also run as a starter motor at the flick of a switch..heres the theory bit..may be mount a similar unit on the end of the crank in the primary where the alernator is mounted...dyno motors are now making a comback on eco regenerative cars..now all you need is a compact one and a regulator for lights etc..lift the de compressor whirl it over n release..like i say theory. Ps and big battery probably of a harley ..
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Re: Electric Start

Post by minetymenace »

*beezergeezer*, you haven't read the whole post, have you? The first few pages are discussions of how best to do this, Dynastart is mentioned several times :oops:
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

Thanks minety....
space for pressure spring is done....
space for pressure spring is done....
actualy the box for the gears is done....
actualy the box for the gears is done....
next Bit: the CFK front plate
next Bit: the CFK front plate
this one explains the trust in plastics I have....
this one explains the trust in plastics I have....
it is easier to made both now in the same step of processing....
it is easier to made both now in the same step of processing....
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Re: Electric Start

Post by minetymenace »

How will the plastic hold up to heat? Both de-lamination and expansion....good move having a plan B. :???:
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

I have read something of it holds 115 ore 120°C.
yes, the engine oil out is sometimes by 120°, I don't know the temp of the primary case, but I guess it is deffenitly lower than 100°C.
I will mesure this next summer and keeping a eye on it.
DSCN0401.jpg
deciding where the cable from the generator has to go and where the four bosses for the topplate centering have to be.
( I do not love much the dowel solution... )
marking the inside of the plate
marking the inside of the plate
DSCN0404.jpg
the four spots are the points making the centering of the plate, because both plates are done as a insert .
the CFK is set in by 3mm, the alu one is set in by 13mm in to the box.
the CFK after milling
the CFK after milling
bad stuff for milling work.
DSCN0409.jpg
the fibres are not really cut at the surface of the part :(
will buy some sealant for the surfaces from "carbonscout"
the alu plate is still on the mill......
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Re: Electric Start

Post by minetymenace »

If you clamp/glue a thin plate on top of your plastic this should reduce the tear out...too late I know, but you may need to do another plan A if you f it up as you can't repair it with weld like plan B
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

minetymenace wrote:If you clamp/glue a thin plate on top of your plastic this should reduce the tear out
good idea, - but then I can not see the scrached line ..... :(

anyway, the plates are roughly done:
DSCN0410.jpg
insert in place with a tight fit !
insert in place with a tight fit !
same the CFK......
same the CFK......
sure, the alu pice will get some more cutting off when the bores for the axles are done...

waiting for the gears from mark now.... <982 <982 <982 <982 ......

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

weilst wayting for the gears from PES, was doing the return spring for the gear Z8 ( the shifting gear )
winding on the lathe,
winding on the lathe,
making springs in left side winding, right side winding , as well in wire size 2mm and 2.5mm.
it will be a testing thing to find out what is best...
not to ugly....
not to ugly....
needs small opening for enter the groove
needs small opening for enter the groove
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

got some hydraulic levers for the gear shifting from eBay.
se what is doable with.....
levers with different size pistons
levers with different size pistons
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Re: Electric Start

Post by minetymenace »

Hydraulic clutch?
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