Electric Start

Here you can talk about all kind of TECH for the B50 B44 B25 And Other BSA unit Singles

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Re: Electric Start

Post by nopdog » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:58 pm

Wow Beat.
How good does that look.
Have you named it yet.

How about. The Beat Machine.
Or, Machine Beat.

Simon

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:57 pm

minetymenace wrote:Gave up on the plastic then beat?
not yet minety, - but one pice of the elegant after the other.....
minetymenace wrote:I guess it is rip it all down and get them cogs hardened now....
yes, I am on the way for it <216
nopdog wrote:Have you named it yet.
not bevor it dos real work.... :oops: :oops:
( at the moment I do wayt for some material as supper liquid glue for the CFK Plate, Hydraulik piping for the master / slave connection for the gearshift and a new helmet for TIG welding to made the bracket......)

the final drawings:
V.4.2 Z 6.pdf
(75.33 KiB) Downloaded 104 times
V.4.2 Z 8.pdf
(71.89 KiB) Downloaded 86 times
V.4. Z 7.pdf
(58.5 KiB) Downloaded 87 times
Axle Z8 Z 4 5.pdf
(60.08 KiB) Downloaded 85 times
V.4.3 Z 5 4.pdf
(68.72 KiB) Downloaded 89 times
and the bracket on the way...
DSCN0540.jpg
beat <216

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:03 pm

hi minety,

the gears are on the way to marc cook now for hardening and final machining.

and the needle bushings are going in place:
DSCN0542.jpg
BK 1512 in place
DSCN0543.jpg
from the side to the engine case
the two other bores getting clogged by the Axles for this gears....

beat <216

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Re: Electric Start

Post by Ian Hingley » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:11 pm

beat wrote:the final drawings:beat <216
Amazing stuff, as ever Beat!

Two things:

1) One of your drawings is dated 02/17. Have you really been designing for a whole year, or should it be 02/18?
2) No need to identify your drawings with your fancy BL signature - only you could do anything like this!

Keep up the good work

Ian
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:01 pm

Ian Hingley wrote:Amazing stuff
ha ha, Ian, :laugh

but I go with you when I see it running, - not one minute before..... <201
Ian Hingley wrote:One of your drawings is dated 02/17. Have you really been designing for a whole year, or should it be 02/18?
not been drawing one full year, no. :grin:
this gear is the only one wich keeps as it is, - no modification on it.
DSCN0544.jpg
a other fancy one....
what about this Ian :?: :idea:

beat :laugh

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Re: Electric Start

Post by skippy » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:06 pm

Hi Beat
Did you hit the starter before getting the gears hardened, to see if it all turned as it should.
Doug
Should never have sold them old motorbikes

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Re: Electric Start

Post by Ian Hingley » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:42 pm

beat wrote:what about this Ian :?: :idea:
Haha, that's brilliant beat.

I'm gonna download and keep that photo!

:thumb

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:21 pm

skippy wrote:Did you hit the starter before getting the gears hardened, to see if it all turned as it should.
I have turnet all by hand, not by starter because with the poorly made dummies ( replacing the needel bearings ) I was shy to run the motor.

the motor spinnes by 4200 rpm, the flywheel gear by 120 rpm, so good bearings are needed to see what is really going on....

got some more stuff for it today, especially the relay is making me thinking... <017 <017

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:01 pm

hi all

made a dummy for the gear No. 8, - the shifting gear - for testing reasons:
DSCN0547.jpg
dummy with no teeth... Z 8
DSCN0548.jpg
slave mod.
worked on the piston for the slave cylinder.
sealing it with a quad ring in additional to the shaft seal ring.
DSCN0549.jpg
piston mod.
.... some more mods are in progress....

then, filled the little hydraulic with oil
DSCN0552.jpg
getting the air out
DSCN0551.jpg
testing the alu front plate
DSCN0556.jpg
testing the CFK front plate
and Hurraaaaa,, it dos shift the gear ( dummy ) exactly as it should :ban :ban :ban :ban :ban

it is easily to observe the shifting of the gear from the inside of the primary cover and taking the measurements of the positions the gear is reaching.
DSCN0557.jpg
gearshift from the engine side
DSCN0550.jpg
looking neat...
smal and tidy and not sticking out in compare to the generator housing.

as far as I can see today, - the ( hopefully ) last big pice of the elephant is eaten :!:

beat <982

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Re: Electric Start

Post by Jack Gifford » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:33 am

Do I recall that you made the slave housing from a block of aluminum? You're quite an artist with that mill!
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Re: Electric Start

Post by twinshocker » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:07 pm

Jack Gifford wrote: Do I recall that you made the slave housing from a block of aluminum? You're quite an artist with that mill!
Absolutely ! it looks like it came from a CNC machine :thumb

Beat do you have a "Drehtisch" on that mill ?

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:31 pm

hi gents
Jack Gifford wrote: the slave housing from a block of aluminum?
yes, a round bar in diameter of 50 mm.
twinshocker wrote: it looks like it came from a CNC machine
the CNC part in this case are my left and right hand in synchron for such things...
CNC = Compleately Neandertaler Control... :oops:
twinshocker wrote:do you have a "Drehtisch" on that mill ?
No, no "Drehtisch" nor a indexing head


Today I was on a new " Barrel and Piston " for the slave Zylinder
DSCN0558.jpg
Version 1 & 2 are not as I like it
Version 3 is in now, no picture taken.
but it looks good, better sealing, easily moving.

so:
DSCN0559.jpg
engine ready to go in the bike
DSCN0560.jpg
starter in place
now I wait for warmer weather to fit the engine
:thumb

next will be:
DSCN0546.jpg
the starter relay from a Yam 660 xt

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Re: Electric Start

Post by Jack Gifford » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:08 am

beat wrote: ... CNC = Compleately Neandertaler Control...
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Electric Start

Post by Grouty » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:35 am

Looks fantastic Beat :-)

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:16 pm

thanks grouty

for me, it looks - let say - acceptable

hopefully it will work fantastic..... <209

beat <965 ( have caught a flue )

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:08 pm

finished the bracket:
DSCN0563.jpg
DSCN0562.jpg
DSCN0561.jpg
nice little support for the starter motor
and inserting some stainless treads for the generator adjusting port
DSCN0555.jpg
M 4 treads inserted
DSCN0554.jpg
from the inside
beat <216

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:12 pm

DSCN0578.jpg
DSCN0579.jpg
DSCN0582.jpg
DSCN0583.jpg
engine is in, everithing find its place and I was on a first short ride.

the gears are still missing because there is something wrong with the UK customs.
they can NOT IMPORTING something made in England as they say.
so probably they coming back to me and have not reached Mark Cook so far. :(
so now I wait and then I must see for a other solution of transport to PES....

beat :???:

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Re: Electric Start

Post by Jack Gifford » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:07 am

Very "neat" looking!
"Motley" bike history: Horex 400, 1940 HD 45 FH, HD Baja 100, '49 Indian Scout 440, Victor 441 Roadster, H*nda TL125, Guzzi V50, H*nda FT500, 400-4, NX250
Aside from bikes: known as the "guru" of M/T hemi Pontiacs

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:25 pm

hi all

fitted the starter relay and put the wires up to it
DSCN0585.jpg
very short 10mm2 copper from the battery to the relay. ( 5 inches only )
DSCN0584.jpg
and a other 5 inches from the relay to the starter motor as well.

a short test run of the starter motor only says: yes, it is working :ban

still missing the gears.....

beat <216

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Wed May 02, 2018 8:40 pm

I got a other set of gears from Mark. ( a spare set he was made it for himself.... )

I have worked on them today so they will go back for hardening and finally grinding by a other way this time...... ;-)

the first set is still stuck in the UK customs somewhere..... :(

<212 <216 <212

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Re: Electric Start

Post by Jeff K » Sat May 05, 2018 5:39 pm

Just curious, has anyone looked at modifying parts from the Alton Norton electric starter kit to work on a BSA?
https://alton-france.com/norton-starter

Jeff

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Wed May 09, 2018 8:17 pm

Jeff K wrote:has anyone looked at modifying parts from the Alton Norton electric starter kit to work on a BSA
yes I have:
found space problem.

beat :uhu

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:49 pm

beat wrote:the first set is still stuck in the UK customs somewhere....
hi all,

the first set of gears have find the way back to me !
after more than 4 month stuck at the UK Customs, the parcel arrived at my home in state of PES in Goldthorpe <218 <013 <022

now it is on the way again by " a other route "......

<216 beat

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:13 pm

hi all
DSCN1209.jpg
X Mas Present....
today arrived the gears from PES.

Hardened and grinded as per drawing.
:thumb :thumb :thumb :thumb

I go for snowboarding next week -- can't await to fit them all and see dos it work or not....

beat <216 <982

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Re: Electric Start

Post by minetymenace » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:40 pm

:thumb
You must video you first attempt at starting, beat.

Be careful sliding down mountains on a plank, it can be dangerous!
There is no evidence to support the notion that life is serious.
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:47 pm

minetymenace wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:40 pm
You must video you first attempt at starting, beat.
ok, I will video it, but I guess I need your help to get it in to the forum.

I will call you when I get it.

beat :lol:

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Re: Electric Start

Post by twinshocker » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:25 pm

beat wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:13 pm
..........
today arrived the gears from PES.........
Puh...just in time before the Brexit ! :uhu

Ok you are swiss, so nothing will change for you :thumb

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:28 pm

hi twin,

I hope it will change something!

as it can‘t get more bad! I go to pik up my parts in germany now.......

beat :oops:

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:38 pm

DSCN0767.jpg
so this is one set of gears made by Mark Cook PES
DSCN1212.jpg
Z 7 got the Sprag pressed in. tight fit of 0,05 mm ! ( and yes, it is in the RIGHT direction in !! )
DSCN1213.jpg
and it fits perfect on to the shaft of the gear Z 6
DSCN1214.jpg
the other gears getting the roller bearing pressed in.
DSCN1216.jpg
puting them in the spare alu-frontplate and all seams to work well....
DSCN1215.jpg
as it is cold outside........
DSCN1217.jpg
I could not resist....
DSCN1218.jpg
fitting the gears and all seams well

all in place I pressed the button...... and nothing happened , - just a " clack - clack " from the starter relay. :oops: :oops:
DSCN1219.jpg
so I took the starter motor off : - it seams to go a bit hard..
then I checked the Battery : yes, - it was very low in voltage ! much to low.

so we will see a other day.... <213 <212

beat <218

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Re: Electric Start

Post by kommando » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:50 pm

Beat, voltage is just part of it, you need to know the peak amps the starter will draw and make sure the Battery CCA rating is high enough, same for solenoid and the cables plus your earth path back to the battery.

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Re: Electric Start

Post by Jack Gifford » Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:29 am

Great progress! :thumb
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Re: Electric Start

Post by Jango » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:43 pm

I think you should pull in the exhaust valve lifter before operating the electric start, then release it when the motor has gathered momentum

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Re: Electric Start

Post by minetymenace » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:04 pm

The existing lifter would not be suitable for this as I fear the push rod would jump out....
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Re: Electric Start

Post by Mark Cook » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:18 pm

Watching with interest.
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:29 pm

never had a valve lifter on my bike, - so never had any troubles with :thumb

will come up soon...

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:22 pm

DSCN1218.jpg
I find out as some gears are NOT rotating freely ! :(
can you see it :?:
DSCN1224.jpg
there it is !
the breathing pipe for the primary case is too long and touching one gear... :oops: :oops:
DSCN1225.jpg
taking of the case,
DSCN1226.jpg
shortening the pipe
DSCN1227.jpg
and this was it on that place.

in additional, - gear No. 6 got squeezed by 0.2 mm only, :oops: :oops:
so I had to cut off a little bit on the front plate(s)
DSCN1230.jpg
the Carbon plate needet a sealing with the liquid glue, the alu plate just a roughly space giving...

and now, I can rotate all the gears with one finger.

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:12 pm

once more ready to go on to the bike
DSCN1233.jpg
but as it is bloody cold outside...

:???: beat :werd

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Re: Electric Start

Post by Mark Cook » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:57 pm

Your English is improving Beat ;-)

I just hope the gears don't try to escape when it's used in anger. <216
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Re: Electric Start

Post by Canberra » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:09 pm

Doug Fraser uses the valve lifter to start his electric start B50. There is a u-tub video of his many special bikes being started.

John

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:56 pm

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