Electric Start

Here you can talk about all kind of TECH for the B50 B44 B25 And Other BSA unit Singles

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Barry Creary
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Re: Electric Start

Post by Barry Creary »

Well done Beat you are a extraordinary person now you will have to build many more Beat electric starters <216 <216 <917 <917 <924 <977 <977
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Re: Electric Start

Post by Jack Gifford »

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
"Motley" bike history: Horex 400, 1940 HD 45 FH, HD Baja 100, '49 Indian Scout 440, Victor 441 Roadster, H*nda TL125, Guzzi V50, H*nda FT500, 400-4, NX250
Aside from bikes: known as the "guru" of M/T hemi Pontiacs
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Mark Cook
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Re: Electric Start

Post by Mark Cook »

Fantastic, and no new inspection holes!
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Re: Electric Start

Post by CCM620 »

well done Beat,but also PES for the gears!
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Re: Electric Start

Post by minetymenace »

Watched that five times with a huge smile on my face...well done.
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Re: Electric Start

Post by koncretekid »

Congratulations, Beat! Hard work and perseverance pays off. What are you going to do for your next trick?
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

Thank you very much gentlemans :cool:

out of this very short and really first starting procedure, - it seams to me as my battery is a bit small for the B50.

means , - I have to think about a good working decompressor, say valve lifter.

but as I am busy on my Gold Star racing Project to finish, the B50 has to wait now a bit....


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Re: Electric Start

Post by baz »

Absolutely amazing work beat
very well done you should be very proud of yourself
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Re: Electric Start

Post by skippy »

Well done. Only 1 question is the starter button on the starter motor and not remote, as i was wondering what the finger was doing on the starter when you start it?
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Re: Electric Start

Post by BasilF »

One of these batteries made a big difference to starting on my microlight. Much more grunt from the same size of battery and lighter too.

http://bikeaholics.co.uk/magento/index. ... prod_info2
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Re: Electric Start

Post by minetymenace »

Have a look at the current path to and from the battery, thick cables to the solenoid and the earth direct to the starter motor, short runs with good bolt on connections. I noticed from the video that your exhaust gas sensor was on a "heat" phase at startup, maybe delay this until the engine is running....things to think about while building your off road spaz-chariot!
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Re: Electric Start

Post by kommando »

Starts well, if your ignition is voltage sensitive then you can add a voltage buck step up so the ignition does not see the voltage drop as the starter turns. Boyer MK3's suffer lower voltage and over advance on Commando MK3's causing backfires and destroying the sprag unit.
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Jack Gifford
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Re: Electric Start

Post by Jack Gifford »

BasilF wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:19 am ... One of these batteries... http://bikeaholics.co.uk/magento/index. ... prod_info2
Thanks for the posting. It looks like lithium ion batteries are finally becoming more affordable.
"Motley" bike history: Horex 400, 1940 HD 45 FH, HD Baja 100, '49 Indian Scout 440, Victor 441 Roadster, H*nda TL125, Guzzi V50, H*nda FT500, 400-4, NX250
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beat
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

I do use a Lithium ion battery from SHIDO
but my one is a 30 WH only.
skippy wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:47 am Well done. Only 1 question is the starter button on the starter motor and not remote, as i was wondering what the finger was doing on the starter when you start it?
my fingers are not on the starter motor, - they are just above of it on the Main Switch.
my Switch is ON - OFF - ON and has a additional " ON " position, like a car main switch.
this spring loaded " ON " I am using now for the starter relay. <205


minetymenace wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:53 am noticed from the video that your exhaust gas sensor was on a "heat" phase at startup
yes, - commonly I wait the 20 seconds for passing the " heat phase " ( takes 3 Amps ) before kickstarting it.
in this very first case I forgot to wait this time :oops:
baz wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:13 am very well done you should be very proud of yoursel
thanks baz,- but I have no time to be proud because my Gold Star Project is giving me a lot of work at the moment....
<216
and yes, -- a big thank you very much gos to PES - Mark Cook and Anita - how was producing the gears by a payable price. :!:

a other great thank you to crankbuster for helping with the more professional drawings in this project :ok

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Re: Electric Start

Post by gunnag »

Well done Beat, great to see you have finally got it working :)
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Re: Electric Start

Post by koncretekid »

Beat,
I do think that a compression release would do wonders to help get rotational momentum into the flywheel before releasing the compression release. Another thing to try is to just put the bike in gear and back it up against compression. Then put it back in neutral and hit the starter button. This is how I start my high compression 600cc motor on the roller starter as I do not have a compression release with the dual plug set-up and slimmed down rocker arms.

Andy Chaos had a different style of compression release on his Bonneville B50 bike that looked like a small poppit valve but I didn't get a good look at it.

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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

hi Tom

I know the popup valves from the chainsaw, - but I don't like it much.
and yes, the " put it back to compression strocke " is one thing to do, I will go for the B50 as soon it is a bit warmer outside <204

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Re: Electric Start

Post by Mark Cook »

It took me a long time before I warmed to the idea of the chainsaw valve. Most people expose the valve to full combustion. As we are lucky enough to have CNC machines, head jigs and drawings we were able to find a location where we don't break though. Then a small communication hole is drilled. They don't last forever, and there many versions. Many are not good. Not had one fail in service open to date.
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Re: Electric Start

Post by kommando »

As long as the small communication hole is smaller than the head of the valve in the chainsaw decompressor the engine is protected from the head coming off as it can't get into the compression chamber to bounce around. That head coming off it the most likely failure mode of these valves.
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Mark Cook
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Re: Electric Start

Post by Mark Cook »

Thanks for the warning, not seen that happening …….Phew!
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Re: Electric Start

Post by kommando »

Its the cheap Chinese ones that seem to suffer this, but best if you cover it, in case the decent ones you fit are replaced by a cheaper one.
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Mark Cook
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Re: Electric Start

Post by Mark Cook »

We try to use genuine, but that means nothing. The origin of goods is hard to prove these days :(
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Re: Electric Start

Post by ringding »

I doff my cap to you Beat. Great achievement!
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Re: Electric Start

Post by carlos »

:ok :ok :ok
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

hi gentlemans,

after one season riding the bike ( not so many Km's ) with the electric starter I must say : I'm NOT happy.

the difficult part is the engaging of the gear No. 8 , more exactly it is the little hydraulic that should shift the gear.
the master cylinder and the hose are from a pushbike, and this is not able to stay any heat.
it is loosing oil and very often it is getting air in the system and as a result, the shifting the gear isn't working.

I have to build something new this winter, - a saver hydraulic ore something mecanical with a cable, - I will see....

beat :???:
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Re: Electric Start

Post by Jeff K »

kommando wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:01 pm Starts well, if your ignition is voltage sensitive then you can add a voltage buck step up so the ignition does not see the voltage drop as the starter turns. Boyer MK3's suffer lower voltage and over advance on Commando MK3's causing backfires and destroying the sprag unit.
This is the reason that I only use Power Arc EI units, they are good down to 6v. Fred at Old Brits will only use these in the MKIII just for that same reason. Electric starter pulls the voltage down, Low voltage cause the EI to go to full advance while starting, Full advance while stating causes a kick back that then breaks the very expansive starter Sprague. These are not cheap units, but I have used several of them and have not only been very happy with the results, I have not had any issues with them. Extremely simple to set up. Set piston at TDC, turn rotor until timing LED goes on, tighten and that is it. Every bike that I have used these on , I had to reduce the idle speed afterwards, I think it is the triple spark that makes them run and start better.
http://www.oldbritts.com/powerarc.html

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Re: Electric Start

Post by SteveS »

Hi Beat

So your design has worked for a full season and you have identified just one problem. That's impressive :thumb

I'm sure you will find a solution to the hydraulics issue :smile:
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

SteveS wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:00 am I'm sure you will find a solution to the hydraulics issue
I do hope so..... <213
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Re: Electric Start

Post by skippy »

Is it the hose or the slave cylinder causing the problem. The hose is easy to replace but the slave cylinder could be difficult. What break fluid are you using in it?
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Re: Electric Start

Post by Mark Cook »

Still Impressed.
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Re: Electric Start

Post by twinshocker »

Beat i think if you use proven hydraulic parts from motorcycles, i.e. Magura Hymec or hydraulic clutch parts from actual enduro bikes the problem should disappear
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

skippy wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:02 pm What break fluid are you using in it?
hi skip,
I do use the same oil as in the engine, a straight 50 mineral.
skippy wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:02 pm Is it the hose or the slave cylinder causing the problem
guess it is the hose and the according connectors. so I get air in the slave cylinder.....
twinshocker wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:30 pm if you use proven hydraulic parts from motorcycles, i.e. Magura Hymec or hydraulic clutch parts from actual enduro bikes the problem should disappear
probably right, - I should searching for such stuff, - but this things have horrible prices most of time..... :(
Mark Cook wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:08 pm Still Impressed.
I will be two, --- if it is several days properly working under any circumstances....

beat <213
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

the virus I am calling thanks, - I got the time now to go to finishing the starter engaging.
this gear should be moved by a lever to the barrel side....
this gear should be moved by a lever to the barrel side....
I find a fault at the brass piston.....
I find a fault at the brass piston.....
this gear dos not slide freely when just one pin is pressing on it. it get wedged. so I guess I do need a fork.
fork on the way
fork made out of a ring
fork made out of a ring
DSCN1752.jpeg
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

fork on new piston
fork on new piston
all in place but no geardrive plate
all in place but no geardrive plate
will testing it tomorrow

<216 .....
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

clack - clack - clack -.....

Starter- Relais failure :werd
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Re: Electric Start

Post by beat »

had to clean the contacts of the relais...
DSCN1761.jpeg
was not a problem to clean it, but difficult to dismantle and to refit.
DSCN1759.jpeg
= Relai is working !

<216
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