your own ignition

Here you can talk about all kind of TECH for the B50 B44 B25 And Other BSA unit Singles

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beat
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Re: your own ignition

Post by beat »

hi stew,

it is worth to study the LM 2587 T12 Datasheet, guess this is the way as it should go. ( not saying as mine is going jet :???: )
frequency is 100 kHz, - guess it makes the choose of the transformation NOT as easy.
the Transformators ferrite is a important thing in this game, let say more the choose of a air-gap ore no air-gap and what size of air-gap is needet.

well, I am not in a hurry with this project, my bike is on the road, running on standard inductive points ignition, the booster is ready to fit as soon as wetter is getting warmer - so this cdi is something keeping my old brain busy in wintertime.... :lol:

beat
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Re: your own ignition

Post by stew79 »

beat ! if you put it that number and cdi, in images (google) there is a complete system on there all ready to go with all the values etc !
why do we bother to try and invent any thing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: your own ignition

Post by beat »

hi stew,
stew79 wrote: if you put it that number and cdi, in images (google) there is a complete system on there all ready to go with all the values etc !
where ?
I can not getting it.
any link ?
thanks

beat :smile:
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Re: your own ignition

Post by BSA_WM20 »

Now I am miffed.
With all of you electronic wizards out there, why are you all hell bent on making really sofisticated switches for obsolete induction coils when you can use a solid state DC amplifier which will produce the required voltage without energizing a massive coil and wasting miles of amps generating unwanted heat.
Seems like eeryone is argueing about who reinvented the better wheel while everyone is running wodden tyres.

I was introduced to the Podtronics ingition some 15 years ago which will run 2 spark plugs for 9 hours on 5 Nicads.
Some one a while back explained that the advance curve on these units ( or rather lack of one ) made them unsuitable for 4 stroke singles but reasonable for blue smokers although there are a lot of 4 stroke riders in the Heaven Vintage MX club running Pods in their bikes.
However the principle of a DC amplification circuit powering a small high input voltage induction coil as used in the Podtronics unit would seem a lot better idea particularly for track work wheere every gram saved is a big advantage.
Am I missing something ?
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Re: your own ignition

Post by stew79 »

hi beat, i have no idea how to send you a link to the web, but when i searched it was less than one page of images.
hi bsa_wm20 i have just been looking all over the web thing at podtronics stuff and cant find any connection with cdi ? they must only do old mdi stuff which is not what some fussy people are looking for. as for advance curves etc thats nothing to do with how its powered, look back to my earlier post about ignition terminology, to see what i mean. if you have a battery system that gives you what you need for your bike , thats very good. after all this topic is called "your own ignition" what ever type, trigger, supply etc that might be.
stew
ps for the record, total losses (heat, resistance, power requirement, etc) in a cdi system can be less than in a mdi system, if the setup well designed.
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Re: your own ignition

Post by stew79 »

beat i found it and put it in a file thing (i think)
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Re: your own ignition

Post by Mark Cook »

http://mastercircuits.blogspot.co.uk/

It's very painful to navigate Beat, but has some interesting stuff.

Thanks Stew.
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Re: your own ignition

Post by beat »

hi all,
Mark Cook wrote:has some interesting stuff.
thanks Mark, yes I found some of.... :ok
stew79 wrote:i found it
nice one stew, thanks, and the optocoupler it seams easily to replace by points seams to me.
I will go carefully trough it and coming back to it .
stew79 wrote:if the setup well designed.
......it needs really very small amounts of energy, but IMO at least on a primary level of somewhere 4 - 6 volts I guess.
BSA_WM20 wrote:you can use a solid state DC amplifier which will produce the required voltage
Hmmmmmm <201
I am surching since a weile such a thing that makes me out of 12 V the 350 - to 450 Volts needet for the loading the Cap.
can you guide me please to a link ore a picture ore name of something like ?

BTW,
BSA_WM20 wrote: who reinvented the better wheel while everyone is running wodden tyres.
nothing against wooden tires,- they where good at there time,- ore tell me : what would tubeless do on a triangle stone wheel :?: :?: :?:
ore do I miss something :uhu

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Re: your own ignition

Post by stew79 »

hi beat, looking at the plans for this new ignition, i cant help thinking "200 volts" going through a new of the shelf cdi coil (very inefficient) is hardly going to ignite a fart ! let alone petrol in an old engine! (mark you have nothing to fear at all)
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Re: your own ignition

Post by beat »

HA HA Ha Ha, - now I know what a " fart " is :lol: :lol: ( had to google this first..... :shock: )

yes, the 200 V was the first droping in my eyes, - but as I reached already 200 V by a N 555 driven converter, I do have some experience with this voltage in the cap of 1, 1.5 and 2 uF.
and it sparks not too bad I say,- and if you touch the caps connectors with your hand still one hour after it got charged, - ohhh my dear, guess the fart you are doing is remarkable !! ( at least mine was.... :oops: )

but seriousely, the energy in the spark in total is given by Capacity and Voltage , ore is Mr. Minety not in the same boat ??
( do you know Mr. Minety ? he is actually the right person for doing something like we try to, but unlucky, at the moment ( since years :!: ) he is very busy by nestling he's B50 in shape....)


I also try to make something by 400 V and 2X 1.5 uF capacity,- with NO success this afternoon, I just fried one Transformers coil :werd

BTW, the transit Q2 and Q3, I do not really knowing what they are fore. it seams as the guy wants to switch off the all unit ( and the LM2587 ) when the 1uF cap is fillet to save energy.
not necessary I say because the LM 2587 drops the current on its pin 4 ( the switch ) by itself because the feedback on pin 2 is saying : Cap is full .

guess some parts of this Layout are to use, the all thing is working I guess, just about spark duration there is not to much to expect.....

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Re: your own ignition

Post by stew79 »

beat theres the problem......when i look at that diagram, i find it impossible to figure out over half of it. its just too complected, for a simple engineer who only knows spanners and very basic electronics. my brain wont take it in, its all right for people like you who are naturally good at the really technical stuff. i will just stay in the dark ages with my old transistors, etc. (and wooden wheels). and are your going on about that "volts and capacity" thing again ? on my scope i can measure 40 volts across the 100 ohm resistor thing (as shown by the "boffin of oz") thats 0.4 of an amp of spark. i can get the same results with half the size of capacitor ? (charged to the same voltage) by using a different turns ratio, or wire thickness, or core length, or material ???? can your "volts capacity" thing ex plane that ???? if i use my "best coil" and a 1uf cap, at 500 volts i can get 90 volts across the resistor ! thats 0.9 of an amp ! at speed, it sounds like it will erode the plug away !!!!!!
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Re: your own ignition

Post by Mark Cook »

Don't knock yourself Stew, as I said before you will get there. The longer you play with it the pennies will drop. Your dedication to dissect and fiddle is impressive. If you want to be as good as Beat, you know you'll have to learn the language ;-) <216
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Re: your own ignition

Post by stew79 »

finally managed to get the one of the S*zuki dyno runs from friday in a file ! it was only for a bit of fun as there was a gap in the work schedule.
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Re: your own ignition

Post by stew79 »

hate technology !
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Re: your own ignition

Post by BSA_WM20 »

stew79 wrote:hi beat, i have no idea how to send you a link to the web, but when i searched it was less than one page of images.
hi bsa_wm20 i have just been looking all over the web thing at podtronics stuff and cant find any connection with cdi ? they must only do old mdi stuff which is not what some fussy people are looking for. as for advance curves etc thats nothing to do with how its powered, look back to my earlier post about ignition terminology, to see what i mean. if you have a battery system that gives you what you need for your bike , thats very good. after all this topic is called "your own ignition" what ever type, trigger, supply etc that might be.
stew
ps for the record, total losses (heat, resistance, power requirement, etc) in a cdi system can be less than in a mdi system, if the setup well designed.
Brain fart time.
The units I was thinking of were Runtronics.http://www.jeperformance.biz/runintro12.htm
Whole unit including the tiny power coil is the size of a matchbox.
When the B 40 finally gets the new crank fitted that has been sitting on the shelf for the past 9 years it will become the road test gunea pig.
I know they work very well when fitted to single & twin cylinder 2 & 4 stroke MX bikes but I need to know if they will handle a lot longer duration of continious running.
The only downside is you have to make your own sensor mounting.
We ( not much of me in that we ) removed the alternator rotor & stator and fitted the NiCads inside the primary where the stator would usually go.
Then made a rotor ( bit I did) to fit the magnet and counterweight which fitted on the very end of the crankshaft.
The sensor coil was mounted to a plate that allowed it to be rotated to get the full advance spark at the right place and also moved radially which alters the advance curve.
In the past 15 years or so I have seen hundreds of variations of the standard Hall effect trigger modules that in fact date back to the 1972 Atom ignition units which were made untill 2001 when the patient expired . Atom used to be one of my courier customers .
While there has been some very cleaver ways of altering the timing curves, they still remain a basic switch for the bloated outdated high energy consuming ignition coil, However few are a really big improvement on the old "points eliminators" some of which were programmable ( sort of) 40 years ago.
Am I missing something ?
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Re: your own ignition

Post by BSA_WM20 »

Oh,
And to get past the scrutineers on the first one we fitted the control unit into an old empty Lucas coil can running the control & power wires as if they were alternator wires in a sheath then split them and ran the power wire in some coaxial cable into one side of the coils and the control wires in some red sheathing into the other side of the coils with a bridge between the two so it looked like 2 standard coils mounted very close together.
He ran the bike like this for a whole season and no one twigged despite having the head pulled several times for capacity checks.
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Re: your own ignition

Post by Mark Cook »

I think those of us that are not "just confused" are missing the points (pun intended for Beat) Over the years I think Beat has been on the quest for road fixable ultra lean burn characteristics. (correct me if I'm wrong) Stew, seems to just likes playing and finding out how it works. (nothing wrong with that). Me, I just want to remove a commercial strangle hold. Sadly I made a promise that to date I have kept, that restricts what I do and say.

A misconception is that a spark is just not a spark. It has a time period and an amount of energy, all of which can be manipulated.
The methods of this manipulation can alter the amount of energy used and or wasted.

So as you can see from this brief note there is much more involved than just producing a simple spark.
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Re: your own ignition

Post by hwan »

Now i am confused - i thought the spark was a means to start the combustion process at the correct time, dependent on mixture/load/rpm/etc. ?
The combustion starts within the first microseconds of the spark - subsequent sparking does little unless the mixture is so badly mixed or combustion products remain from previous cycles, etc.

I would have thought that re configuring the porting and combustion chamber to provide better mixture mixing and shorter propagation paths would be a more fruitful path to take?
Producing a spark of plasma like intensity and for god knows how many mili seconds - is basically compensation for the above?

As the correct time to spark depends on load/mixture/rpm/atmospherics/etc - i would have thought a 'statically' programmable or a reactive system that reacts to rpm/load/etc would be the goal?

Certainly all major progress since WW2 on the internal combustion engine has been due to electronics and the ability to actually measure what happens in the combustion chamber in real time.
Everything else is old hat - even a magneto is basically a self-generating CDi system .... :grin:
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Re: your own ignition

Post by stew79 »

i think the whole idea of an old fashion, obsolete, simple, basic bike engine (air cooled, push rod, or even jap !) is to ESCAPE from technology ? to be as simple as absolutely possible, with the only other requirement being "it must go like hell, and put a smile on your face" water cooling, throttle position sensors, lambda sensors, fuel injection, multi program ignition settings, etc, etc, are fine for the modern world of very clever well designed scramblers and super bikes, but thats not what it is about here ! if a very strong spark, and rich jetting, can hide up lots of old design problems, and mask issues with combustion camber shapes, lumpy pistons etc then that suits me just fine !!!!!!!!!! grab a BIG hand fill of throttle and have some simple fun, stuff the environment and carry on burning all them lovely hydrocarbons like theres no tomorrow. no room clever stuff here.
stew
ps i appreciate what mark means about passing on too much information, after all he is a proper business man with excellent products to protect.
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Re: your own ignition

Post by stew79 »

another ps, S*zuki on the dyno, the mixture probe reading went of the scale for rich ! so i actually put a smaller main jet in it (never done any thing like that before !) with a 1.42mm dia jet it was still way too rich, but the strong spark and 40 degrees of advance meant it just reved like crazy !! who needs fancy stuff !!!!!!!
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Re: your own ignition

Post by beat »

Hooo, Hooo,

Gentlemans, now it gos all to quick for old beat.

ore in other words : to do a seriously job it needs to go step by step, small steps I would say, otherways at least myself will fall on my nose and I will produce sh-it that costs me more time and effort to repair than going slow but save to the target.

I am not wise, and by
stew79 wrote:a simple engineer who only knows spanners and very basic electronics. my brain wont take it in, its all right for people like you who are naturally good at the really technical stuff.
stew, I guess you are wrong !
your words could be exactly mines, so the basic is very equal :lol:
the difference is somewhere else I say:
I am planing the work first, - then I work the plan.
this plans I check them with the Datasheet for each details, - when all could work theoretically, then I go to the practical make on my Breadbords.
when it works on the bord, I let it run with different supply voltages from 5 to 17 V for longer terms, measuring Temperatures on the parts and checking nearly every tension and current to each part ingoing and outgoing as well.
next step is then the save cooling and housing it.

considering where we are today in this project, it is helpless to discuss about mixture ore combustion chamber, - THEY ARE AS THEY ARE TODAY -

I would like to keep on the Topic,- not going to the left ore the right,- just concentrating to the target of getting 400 Volts in to a capacity of 2 uF.
this capacity must be recharged by a frequency of 66 ore say 80 Hz to suite the 8 000 Rpm the engine is doing.

THIS IS THE TARGET, and before this is not reached, all is helpless, lost of time and money. - - - then it is better to buy a boyruntrexspanonic ore what ever else. - - -

beat :oops:
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Re: your own ignition

Post by skippy »

Dragsters use a magneto ignition which produces sparks of many amps, so they can conduct through the high concentration of fuel.
Horses for courses.
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Re: your own ignition

Post by BSA_WM20 »

hwan wrote:Now i am confused - i thought the spark was a means to start the combustion process at the correct time, dependent on mixture/load/rpm/etc. ?
The combustion starts within the first microseconds of the spark - subsequent sparking does little unless the mixture is so badly mixed or combustion products remain from previous cycles, etc.

I would have thought that re configuring the porting and combustion chamber to provide better mixture mixing and shorter propagation paths would be a more fruitful path to take?
Producing a spark of plasma like intensity and for god knows how many mili seconds - is basically compensation for the above?

As the correct time to spark depends on load/mixture/rpm/atmospherics/etc - i would have thought a 'statically' programmable or a reactive system that reacts to rpm/load/etc would be the goal?

Certainly all major progress since WW2 on the internal combustion engine has been due to electronics and the ability to actually measure what happens in the combustion chamber in real time.
Everything else is old hat - even a magneto is basically a self-generating CDi system .... :grin:
You could not be further from the reality.
As Mark has said, a spark is not a spark and will not be able to initiate combustion unless it has sufficient energy and can transfer that energy , or part there of to the air fuel mix.
If the spark is too quick, nothing happens, if the spark is too small in physical size, nothing happens
If the rising rate is too slow the spark will track down the side of the plug and if the rising rate is too high it will initiate a feeble low enregy high voltage spark that will not ignite the mix. If it is too short nothing happens.

Getting it correct every time is a lot harder to do than most would believe and it is one of the reasons that a lot of modern engines run cluster sparks.

And modern engines do not measure what is happening inside the cylinder.
They measure what goes in , what comes out and guess the rest.

Old kettering ignitions used way way too much energy as do a lot of magnetos which is one of the reasons why plugs in modern engines can run for thousands of hours longer than they could back in the day.
Like a lot of things, when you are not sure what is happening, smack it hard with the biggest hammer you can find.
However advances in measurement technology has confirmed hat you can get the same result with a tiny tap in the right place at the right time.
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Re: your own ignition

Post by stew79 »

hi bsa_wm20, i wish i had known about "runtronics" years ago, there stuff looks very good and well thought out ! even there prices are very cheap really. in the past i have made several direct powered cdi,s for jap bikes. i have never managed to make one for the ccm500 as the kicking speed is too slow, and the 2 pole stater and only 2 pole rotor dont make enough power. i have used several charge up speedway boxes over the years, but as they are enormous, they have to be dismantled and spread around the bike to fit, running a jap cdi coil. (i have thrown out the potted in original coils in the past as i wrongly thought "its only a coil", that wont make any difference !) although i have finally figured out how to run the ccm from the alternator (indirect cdi) i could have used a runtronic thing with some small batteries and saved a lot of hassle ! the only slight issue might be the timing. i like 0 degrees at kick over speed, rising to 38 deg btdc at 3000 rpm (this is for the 4 valve ccm) and staying at 38 deg for the rest of the rev range. but if the runtronic unit wont do this it could be de potted and a conventional lucus type pickup used with a different thyristor on the circuit board. as for the size of hammer to smack the problem ? i like that, i trained as a welder ( in my collection of tools i have 20 odd hammers !!!) and was looking forward to a glittering career with lots of money, but several of my tutors (i was also learning engineering as well) convinced me to change over to precision engineering as the rewards were even better ! (they also said anyone can weld if they are trained ! but an engineering mind is something you are born with ????) if i had stuck at welding i would have 3 times my present wealth and be retired !!!!!!!!!
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Re: your own ignition

Post by hwan »

I think some contributors have disappeared so far up there own arse they no longer see daylight - i think i'lll go back to facetwitter for a more meaningful discussion - see you out there guys ..... or not?
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Re: your own ignition

Post by BSA_WM20 »

Yes & I wanted to leave school & become a motor mechanic but was convinced to to waste another 10 years of tertiary education to end up bing a highly over educated van driver and now in my 60's. a mechanic.
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Re: your own ignition

Post by Andy Chaos »

If the spark is too quick, nothing happens, if the spark is too small in physical size, nothing happens
If the rising rate is too slow the spark will track down the side of the plug and if the rising rate is too high it will initiate a feeble low enregy high voltage spark that will not ignite the mix. If it is too short nothing happens.

If my ignition suffered from all of the above I would simply say I had no spark :???:
Bollox to all this when my interspan goes tits up I am fitting a diesel :shock:
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Re: your own ignition

Post by stew79 »

sorry all i was getting carried away thinking about BIG hammers and hitting things and welding....back to spark stuff . i love diesels, they are the way forward in lots of ways except using a kick start to start one ! some pictures for beat of a coil thing and transistor. i tried to make it for 12 volts but it might need some tweaking.
stew
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Re: your own ignition

Post by stew79 »

from the bottom up.
parts from the tessla box
300 t 0.3mm wire (didnt have any 0.25)
25 t 0.8mm wire (thought more than 10 t would be better for 12 volt supply)
16 t 0.4 wire for feed back coil (to turn thrans off. could use 0.3mm wire)
cap diodes and trans soldered on
ready to go
AAA 1.5 volt battery lighting a small neon (mains light from an extension lead to cheque for HT
dc voltage from 1.5 volt bat
1470 volts dc from old smoke alarm battery ( volt)
a better grip on the AAA bat gives 700 volts dc
beat you could use this as the start of your power supply ? so few components and very efficient, it would need a regulator though to what ever volts you are going to use (string together some ac tvs,s with a bc338 trans
stew
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Re: your own ignition

Post by beat »

hi stew,

this is great!
I am doing something wrong because I do not get the High Voltage!

when I am starting the thing, the transformatore makes a surtain noise, sounds like a old rusty door that shut for some seconds and then is finished, silence and no more voltage!

maybe I do something bad by the wires winding, - will come to it tomorrow.....
beat
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Re: your own ignition

Post by Ian Hingley »

beat wrote:sounds like a old rusty door that shut for some seconds and then is finished, silence and no more voltage!
Do you get any smoke seeping under the door?? :thumb

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Re: your own ignition

Post by stew79 »

beat, i dont realty get it with this new little coil thing , i put more turns on the primary (25 instead of 10) to make it better suited for a 12 volt input ? i have hunted round the house for a "low" 1.5 volt battery, and found one in the tv remote (AAA just under 1 volt) this will still run the oscillator and make 650 volts dc ! it will light the neon but the volts go down to 190. i think the 90 ohm resistor will need increasing so it works better on 12 volts. what voltage do you want to to charge your main cap ? and how will you fire the cap ?
stew
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Re: your own ignition

Post by beat »

no smoke seen, just a strange noise wich indicates for me : the LM 2587 is working but something wrong with the coil.

if I got it right, stew has first windet the 300 t and AFTER ( on top ) he winds the 25, - right ?

I have been going the uposite way: first the 16 primary on the coil and after the 440 secondary on top of it.

there is also a secret abouth this winding direction.
it is market with a DOT on the plan of the LM 2587 data sheet, - maybe I do something wrong on this point.

stew, - can you enlighten me ??
principial schematic of my flyback
principial schematic of my flyback
beat :?:
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Re: your own ignition

Post by stew79 »

beat , get a big stick and hit that 5 legged chip thing so hard it runs away, and dosnt come back !!!!!!!!!! as for your road map thing ? (better than mine) too many funny squiggles and things for me to understand ! over complicated . if i am using a small round pot to wind up, i put the primary on first. with these old square things, i put the secondary on first then the primary, then the feed back. i think a voltage to aim for from 12 in is 1200. (with out any regulation) then when under maximum load (flat out running) the available power will be able to fully charge the main cap in the brief time available. if your thyristor for firing is 600 volt the ac tvcs,s (i like these better than dc ones because im lazy, one less thing to get the wrong way round) should have a voltage of 550 or so. power and feed back coils can be wound the same way, but connecting the feed back has 2 choices, so as i said before, start with a low power, or through a small bub as a saftey resistor.
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Re: your own ignition

Post by Mark Cook »

Beat, if it's making a noise something is wrong. More noise more wrong!
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Re: your own ignition

Post by stew79 »

beat, thats a very good point from mark "if its making a noise something is wrong" the frequency the 5 legged should run at is too high to hear. yet another reason to take it to the vet for re homing, or something. at least with the more old fashion stuff you can hear when its working. anyway if the new style frequency is so high, can an ordinary transformer convert that to a higher voltage ? do you need a special high frequency thing ? at least there is no feedback coil in the new set up. but for simplicity i think you should try the setup from my little drawing, it only took 1/2 an hour to wind it all up and solder it together. (it took more time messing about with the camera to get the pictures !) simple is good
stew
ps i have been experimenting from a 12 volt supply with various loads to make the oscillator work, and have found the one and only resistor needs to go up to 300 ohm. it might be better to run the hole thing through an 8 ohm 20 what resistor as well. a better range of ac tvs,s are on the way from rs to make a regulator, so it can go on the test rig.
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Re: your own ignition

Post by beat »

Mark Cook wrote:More noise more wrong!
yes, I do agree, something is wrong - shure ! --- but what is it ??

can it be the " winding it other way round thing ?? "

about the many funny squiggles - I don't think they are all needed for the purpose to fill a cap of 2 uF by 350 to 450 Volts. many of them are to stabilize the outgoing Voltage and to make it ripple- free.

ripple free isn't needed in our case, so the all layout can be much more simply in the end.
stew79 wrote:how will you fire the cap ?
a bit early this question for me, - but anyway: the most finest way would be with two transis.
two because the first one should stop the Flyback from producing the 400 Volts for the time as the second opens the line from the cap to the low Ohm Ign. coil.
all the known system they do not care abouth the "short " is produced whilst firing the cap, - and cap is still filled !

I would like to have this point " clean ", and as this time is somewhere around 1 milli second, I guess it is not a great thing to create a R-C line to the first one and switching it ON this one ms later.
but as I say: to early for me, - it is not evan on the paper now.... :oops:

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Re: your own ignition

Post by minetymenace »

beat wrote:there is also a secret abouth this winding direction
No secret beat, but a fly back transformer must be wired as per your drawing if it is to work. I guess you know about the dots, they represent the "start" of the winding... simply put, apply ac to the primary and the phase of the voltage measured at the dots will be the same.

They appear opposite in a fly back circuit as it is the removing of power and the rapidly collapsing field in the core that causes the voltage to shoot up on the secondary. You must connect the transformer as shown in your diagram.

Your additional resistors are (I guess) to enable you to get a high voltage (coupled with adjusting the turns ratio on the transformer. However doing it this way negates the isolating properties of the transformer. You could derive the feedback from the primary side (use a mirror circuit of the HV side) to keep your HV and LV separate.
flyback.JPG
Your transformer should be about 15mm cube at that frequency (100kHz).
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Re: your own ignition

Post by beat »

thanks minety, I have to go over this with a clear head tomorrow, - together we will find a way to get it running, - shure :thumb

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Re: your own ignition

Post by beat »

hi minety,
look at this:
page 1 on the data sheet of the LM2587-12
page 1 on the data sheet of the LM2587-12
they do make 12 Volts out of 5 Volts, using a relationship of 1 : 2.5 by the windings, right ?

so when feedback is reaching the 12 Volts, the LM .... - 12 is reducing the Amps to keep the 12 V stable.

now, I am using a winding relation of 14 : 440 = 1: 31.5, means the outlet should be 377 Volts.
this 377 V I do devide by the two Resistores of 120 K and 3.9 K , so the 12 Volts should been giving for the feedback on pin 2 as well.

is there something wrong ??? ( ore is everithing wrong ?? )

but again, this " dot " thing is NOT clear to me.... :oops: :oops: :oops:

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minetymenace wrote:I guess you know about the dots, they represent the "start" of the winding.
:?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

it seams as stew knows the trick as well, - but I don't know it....
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