B25 Big End Shells

Here you can talk about all kind of TECH for the B50 B44 B25 And Other BSA unit Singles

Moderator: minetymenace

Post Reply
User avatar
ampshire-og
>140
>140
Posts: 159
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:49 pm
Location: HAMPSHIRE
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 2 times
Flag: England

B25 Big End Shells

Post by ampshire-og » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:28 am

Frantically trying to get my B25 scrambles engine back together for the race season but cannot find any quality big end shells to purchase.
My crank has been ground to -10 u/s but phoning around i.e. BBB, SRM, Britbits, checking the net etc etc I cannot find quality Glacier etc Triumph unit 500 shells to buy, can anyone help???
Next question is would you trust the newly produced L.F Harris ones which are plentiful??
I'm being quite particular over this as last season I had a massive failure with the crank breaking on the d/s, and this is not the first time! I've changed the engineering company who grinds my cranks just to eliminate problems with the grinding. I wasn't 100% sure the 1/16th rad was a good blend into the B/E journal which was possibly the reason for the failure?
Any help would be greatly received.

User avatar
kommando
>1400
>1400
Posts: 1774
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 8:41 pm
Location: Scotland
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 18 times
Flag: Ireland

Re: B25 Big End Shells

Post by kommando » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:33 am

These are Glacier bearings, recognise the box and the label.

http://shop.srmclassicbikes.com/product ... lso-999945

70-3706 (from the label on the box) is T100 also.

But you need to check these are still what they stock as the photo may be old and they may stock LF Harris.

Not seen a pic of the LF Harris bearings but the spec they work to is VP17, a Whitemetal bearing. However I doubt they are Whitemetal, the Glacier bearings are Al/Sn and distributed by Velocette, maybe contact Velocette to ask what retailer has their T100 bearings.

Keith
>80
>80
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:02 pm
Location: Doncaster
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0
Flag: England

Re: B25 Big End Shells

Post by Keith » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:05 pm

Hi,

How frantic for them are you? I've got 2 sets of bearings at home but won't be there for a week. Not sure of size but they are new and I'm sure at least one is Glacier and at least one is for a T100.

I'll dig them out and let you know when I get back if you are still looking then.

Cheers, Keith.

User avatar
ampshire-og
>140
>140
Posts: 159
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:49 pm
Location: HAMPSHIRE
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 2 times
Flag: England

Re: B25 Big End Shells

Post by ampshire-og » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:18 pm

Thanks Both for replies, Yes Keith I would be very interested in your shells. I can wait until you get back to let me know what you have :thumb

Kommando thanks for the leads, unfortunately SRM are now down to LF Harris stock only. Will try Velocettes next.

tridentperu
>20
>20
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:26 am
Location: Gloucester UK
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 2 times
Flag: Great Britain

Re: B25 Big End Shells

Post by tridentperu » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:28 pm

Are trident ones the same too? If so, there are some high quality 'race spec' shells available for the triple

User avatar
kommando
>1400
>1400
Posts: 1774
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 8:41 pm
Location: Scotland
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 18 times
Flag: Ireland

Re: B25 Big End Shells

Post by kommando » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:35 pm

Think they are a different size, as for race spec then this is possibly overlay plated VP2, if it is then it has an overlay plate over leaded bronze. The greater fatigue strength is in the bronze but the overlay is soft and wears quicker than the Al/Tin. Once the overlay is gone the acids in the oil attack the lead in the bronze and weaken it. So yes good for racing where you look inside the engine often but overkill for a road bike. Much better to fit an oil filter and use the Aluminium/Tin shells unless you have tuned the engine. Unless the fatigue strength of the bearing material is breached then the bearing will not fatigue fail. It like a 10 ft tall dam vs a 20 ft tall dam, if the water never goes over 9ft depth then both dams perform the same, water of depth 11ft then the 10 ft dam has a problem. The water level is set by the power the engine produces. So another case of all that glitters is not gold for a road bike but great for racing.

User avatar
Mark Cook
>1400
>1400
Posts: 4763
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:45 pm
Location: CCM Britain HQ Goldthorpe South Yorkshire
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time
Flag: England
Contact:

Re: B25 Big End Shells

Post by Mark Cook » Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:09 am

We did start making a race C15 crank some years ago, but the flywheels were a little small to get to balance. This does away with the shell bearing.
CCM Britain motorcycles and spares manufactured exclusively by PES

+44 (0) 1709 894192
http://www.ccm-britain.co.uk (online shopping experiance)

Keith
>80
>80
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:02 pm
Location: Doncaster
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0
Flag: England

Re: B25 Big End Shells

Post by Keith » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:26 pm

Finally found the bearings.

I have one pair of Glacier for a Triumph but they are .030
Then a pair of .010 but not sure of make. They are Triumph, (stamped 70-3706) and they have a circle within a circle and a plus sign in the very middle. Maybe John (kommando) can identify them.

Keith.

User avatar
kommando
>1400
>1400
Posts: 1774
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 8:41 pm
Location: Scotland
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 18 times
Flag: Ireland

Re: B25 Big End Shells

Post by kommando » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:11 pm

Well I need a pair of 30's so happy to buy them off you Keith, PM me the price if you want to sell.

Image

Circle within circle with a + may be a simplified Glyco stamp, good maker of bearings if they are and I would have no hesitation using them.

User avatar
madsundaysurvivor
>80
>80
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:28 am
Location: Valencia (Spain)
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 4 times
Flag: Spain
Contact:

Re: B25 Big End Shells

Post by madsundaysurvivor » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:49 pm

Hello,

I have a pair of shells in my stock of a T100. I could use it in the B25...., but I don't know its quality. Please, could you tell me if the trade brand is glacier o another?
G in a square frame?
20190318_181605.jpg

User avatar
kommando
>1400
>1400
Posts: 1774
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 8:41 pm
Location: Scotland
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 18 times
Flag: Ireland

Re: B25 Big End Shells

Post by kommando » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:15 am

Those bearings are Glacier Aluminium/Tin, G in a square is an unofficial TM used by the factory in Kilmarnock UK.
These users thanked the author kommando for the post:
minetymenace (Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:16 am)
Rating: 33.33%

User avatar
madsundaysurvivor
>80
>80
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:28 am
Location: Valencia (Spain)
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 4 times
Flag: Spain
Contact:

Re: B25 Big End Shells

Post by madsundaysurvivor » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:38 am

Thank you kommando.
Then, Are they a good quality? I don't know these materials and brands

User avatar
kommando
>1400
>1400
Posts: 1774
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 8:41 pm
Location: Scotland
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 18 times
Flag: Ireland

Re: B25 Big End Shells

Post by kommando » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:50 am

Yes good quality.
These users thanked the author kommando for the post:
madsundaysurvivor (Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:13 pm)
Rating: 33.33%

User avatar
madsundaysurvivor
>80
>80
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:28 am
Location: Valencia (Spain)
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 4 times
Flag: Spain
Contact:

Re: B25 Big End Shells

Post by madsundaysurvivor » Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:13 pm

Thanks

Jeff K
<1100
<1100
Posts: 1138
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:30 pm
Location: Bay City, Michigan USA
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 11 times
Flag: United States of America

Re: B25 Big End Shells

Post by Jeff K » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:14 pm

Lots of great information here. So the Glacier shells are better then the Vandervell ? I dug out some old NOS ones that I had on the shelf and the box has a few NOS Norton and Triumph still in the OEM boxes. I was surprised that NOS triumph and Norton were Vandervell. They have the Circle V symbol on them.
I learn decades ago to buy the T100 sets when working on a B25, same as the B25 and cheaper.
Jeff
Attachments
Big End Shells.jpg

Jeff K
<1100
<1100
Posts: 1138
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:30 pm
Location: Bay City, Michigan USA
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 11 times
Flag: United States of America

Re: B25 Big End Shells

Post by Jeff K » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:25 pm

I was just doing a Ebay search for the T100 Glacier bearings and found MAP had them. Then when I clicked on the site they had this in the description;
"English made Glacier/Vandervell big end shells" Did the companies merge? Or do they have both in stock?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Triumph-T100-T ... SwYbdcT20q
Jeff

User avatar
kommando
>1400
>1400
Posts: 1774
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 8:41 pm
Location: Scotland
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 18 times
Flag: Ireland

Re: B25 Big End Shells

Post by kommando » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:46 pm

Glacier was bought by Turner & Newall who owned AE Autoparts and Hepolite and a few other UK auto parts makers, then after a few years they bought Vandervell and merged them with Glacier to make Glacier Vandervell, they then shut the Vandervell Maidenhead plant down and moved it to Scotland close to the Glacier Kilmarnock plant. Vandervell specialised in the cast Cu/PB bearings and bought a manufacturing licence off Clevite US, to compete with Glacier they bought in Whitemetal and Aluminium Tin strip from Italy. Glacier made all its own products and to get round the cast copper/lead process patent they developed sintered cu/pb with a 5% loss in fatigue strength but meeting all other attributes, they had invented the AS15 Aluminium Tin strip that now accounts for the largest used material in shell bearings.
These users thanked the author kommando for the post:
Jeff K (Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:17 pm)
Rating: 33.33%

Jeff K
<1100
<1100
Posts: 1138
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:30 pm
Location: Bay City, Michigan USA
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 11 times
Flag: United States of America

Re: B25 Big End Shells

Post by Jeff K » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:17 pm

Once again great information. So in your opinion, looking at NOS and current production, what are the better bearings to use.
Jeff

User avatar
kommando
>1400
>1400
Posts: 1774
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 8:41 pm
Location: Scotland
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 18 times
Flag: Ireland

Re: B25 Big End Shells

Post by kommando » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:40 pm

NOS are likely Whitemetal whether Glacier or Vandervell (in the day you just ordered a set from OEM spares and slavishly copied), best to use later ones made after Whitemetal dropped out of favour, I can guarantee later Glacier are Aluminium Tin, the rest I have to see pics of and if from some new manufacturing country they could be Whitemetal as its the cheapest way into shell production even if limited in use.

Jeff K
<1100
<1100
Posts: 1138
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:30 pm
Location: Bay City, Michigan USA
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 11 times
Flag: United States of America

Re: B25 Big End Shells

Post by Jeff K » Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:14 am

It has been many decades. But I seem to recall going through some auto supply manufacturers catalogs and I recall noticing that they made big end shells for Triumph Motorcycles. It would have been very late 60's to early 70's . It was kind of like going through the Hastings piston ring catalog for cars and trucks and being very surprised that they made rings for motorcycles. I may have to dig through some of the old catalogs.
Jeff

Jeff K
<1100
<1100
Posts: 1138
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:30 pm
Location: Bay City, Michigan USA
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 11 times
Flag: United States of America

Re: B25 Big End Shells

Post by Jeff K » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:12 pm

I was just reading these posts and it dawned on me. BSA had soft bearing shells. The vast majority of the 250s sold around here were used off road or for Enduro riding, Street legal and yet still rode hard on the trails. I used to be able to pick up a 250 for $50.00 with title, (that explains why I still have a dozen + of them). All of them had bad lower ends or 2nd gear was missing. I used to just write off the bad bearing as -rode hard all summer, parked all winter and then in the spring fresh change and all of the crud that dropped oil of the oil suspension was picked up in the fresh oil and eroded the shells due to no filters. That and most of the 250's were sold to kids who flogged them to death trying to keep up with all of the 2 stokes of the era. It never occurred to me that the shell were soft.
Motocross was very popular and the drill was -- line up , right hand on the throttle, left hand in the air until the flag dropped. Then as soon as the flag dropped, rev the throttle wide open and stomp it into 2nd gear with out using the clutch. The B50 used to go through a lot of second gears, so the owners were always looking for 250 parts bikes to rob gears from. And with all of the 250 down due to bad big ends it was a cheap source of parts. I had a distributer tell me that later on BSA treated/hardened the gears so it was not so much of a problem. A story that was repeated by other sources when in the 80's I was looking for a new 2nd gear and having problems finding one.
Jeff
Attachments
Motors on shelve.jpg
Bikes basement 1.jpg

Post Reply