B50 - Reaming New Camshaft Bushes

Here you can talk about all kind of TECH for the B50 B44 B25 And Other BSA unit Singles

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B50 - Reaming New Camshaft Bushes

Post by ShinyShoes » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:41 pm

I've been looking locally (Ilford, Essex area) for someone that can line ream or hone new camshaft bushes. I've tried a couple of engineering firms without success and looked at buying a reamer but I'm not having much luck either way. Can anyone offer any information on who does this kind of work?
Thanks,
Barry

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Re: B50 - Reaming New Camshaft Bushes

Post by minetymenace » Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:07 am

My plans for world domination included my new empire donating me a fully tooled up workshop. Unfortunately, something went wrong in my chosen career path and like most people I've ended up with a shed and dreams of becoming a skilled machinist with tools to match, have evaporated.
The abundance of competent small engineering shops has also diminished due to the ubiquitous desire to have everything new and not to “make do” with repaired items. The engineering shops that remain seem to have specialised to survive, and by keeping up with the latest machining techniques, the understanding of what is being machined has diminished.
Explaining to a grunt who has spent his entire life skimming car cylinder heads that you want your bushes line bored and reamed, conjures up in the mind of the Muppet who is about to mangle your motor, making a Monkey by using a twist drill for ten minutes. Only trust specialist work to someone you know to be generally and genuinely good, or who specialises in these motors. The latter has probably done the job before and is already tooled up for it, with NRE costs low, and competence and experience high, you have a fighting chance of getting the job done right.
I have a recommendation, but know that they are flat out and you would have a very long wait.
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Re: B50 - Reaming New Camshaft Bushes

Post by madsundaysurvivor » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:12 pm

Hello,

I will try to explain with my english....

You can do an acceptable home work with a ajustable reamer....
First you need fit the bushes in the cases, and bolt both cases (right crankcase and inner timing cover), If the remaer is enough long you can reamer both bushes a the same time, if not you'll need a bush to center the tool.
If the material to grind is very few (hundredths of mm), you can also pass through the bush a steel ball of correct size.

The best way is that the work is done by a machinist, in this I can't help you in your zone.

Here this work cost between 20-30€, a good tool is more expensive and surely only uses it in this time.
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Re: B50 - Reaming New Camshaft Bushes

Post by minetymenace » Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:18 pm

Expert explanation madsundaysurvivor :ok , so it looks like ShinyShoes needs a good reamer and steel balls, or at least someone who possesses that equipment.
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Re: B50 - Reaming New Camshaft Bushes

Post by ShinyShoes » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:01 am

Well if nothing else this has put a smile on my face! Even if I also bemoan the loss of so much engineering knowledge and skill, not to mention the demise of W L Cooke Precision Tools Ltd, who just happened to be just a couple of miles down the road.

Thanks for the advice madsundaysurvivor, I may well have a crack at it with an adjustable reamer - on the basis that I can only do damage to bits I can replace.

However, just in case my reamer and balls of steel aren't up to the job, if you're willing to share your contact minetymenace I'd be most grateful?

ATB,

Barry

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Re: B50 - Reaming New Camshaft Bushes

Post by madsundaysurvivor » Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:44 pm

I'm sorry Barry, my contacts are in Spain.... and here like in England the most of workshops closed after 2007 economic crisis.
I'm thinking in b25 camshaft, (same size both sides) if you are talking about b44, you would need two adjustable reamers. The range of good variable reamer is about 0,60mm up and down standard size

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Re: B50 - Reaming New Camshaft Bushes

Post by BSA_WM20 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:52 am

It is not a difficult job and any 1/2 decent machinist with a vertical mill and the right sized tooling can do it.
However the problem is the time taken to do the job & the willingness of the customer to pay.
Most head reconditioners will have a mill of sufficient accuracy to do the job.
Weather they have the tooling is another question.
The tooling is around £100 to £ 200 so if they don't have it then they will need to charge you a minimum of the tooling cost plus about 2 hours of labour.
Next did you approach the engineering workshops as an engineering customer.
For a big shop that means a piece of paper with the exact dimensions , required surface finish and datum point.
For a small shop it is either as above or providing the cam & idler pinion as well as the cases with EXACT running clearances.

I have a machine shop I use occasionally.
He is an excellent engineer with a shop full of equipment and no work because we have out sourced all the work the China.
So he sacked all of his employees and rattles around his shop doing whatever comes in through the door.
Because he has nothing to do and because I am willing to pay for his time we get on well together.
This is they type of person you will need to find and they will not be on face book so it is look through the real yellow pages.
Also have a trip around places near motorcycle sales rooms.
Types of industries tend to cluster, my engineer is in an estate, opposite the shop that used to do rebores & crank grinds two doors down from a shop that rebuilds turbochargers for trucks and there are several similar shops in the 40 unit estate.

So you will either have to find an engine reconditioner without much work or go for a log drive to a recognised BSA specialist.
To stay in business engineering workshops have to make a profit and tooling up for a one off job they will never do again is not the way to do it unless the customer is happy to pay the actual costs.

To get on my old warhorse, a lot of people who have the skills & the tooling down here will not touch any old British motorcycle due to previous problems with the owners of said same motorcycles who seem to think work done on a 1969 motorcycle should be done at 1969 rates.
Bike Beesa
Trevor

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Re: B50 - Reaming New Camshaft Bushes

Post by BSA_WM20 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:15 am

minetymenace wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:07 am
My plans for world domination included my new empire donating me a fully tooled up workshop. Unfortunately, something went wrong in my chosen career path and like most people I've ended up with a shed and dreams of becoming a skilled machinist with tools to match, have evaporated.
The abundance of competent small engineering shops has also diminished due to the ubiquitous desire to have everything new and not to “make do” with repaired items. The engineering shops that remain seem to have specialised to survive, and by keeping up with the latest machining techniques, the understanding of what is being machined has diminished.
Explaining to a grunt who has spent his entire life skimming car cylinder heads that you want your bushes line bored and reamed, conjures up in the mind of the Muppet who is about to mangle your motor, making a Monkey by using a twist drill for ten minutes. Only trust specialist work to someone you know to be generally and genuinely good, or who specialises in these motors. The latter has probably done the job before and is already tooled up for it, with NRE costs low, and competence and experience high, you have a fighting chance of getting the job done right.
I have a recommendation, but know that they are flat out and you would have a very long wait.
Gerry,
Stop dreaming , find a few friends and get some machines.
Old world machines are going for a song now days as the world is just about totally digital.
Over the past few years, the landlord & I have obtained 2 mills, 3 lathes & a shaper.
All good solid old world machines and the lot was less than a 1/2 decent A 10.
Engineering workshops are closing down at a rate of knotts and like the weapons used in last years war, no one wants the machines and good machines are going at scrap rates.
Check to see if "The Mens Shed" is operating in the UK.
Google Mens shed to find out about them.
As a charity you can actually get money from the government to set up the machine workshop & fix old motorcycles. sort of sound like Dennis Poore a bit. But more important is if Mens Sheds or a similar oranization is operating in the UK then there is a good chance of getting rent free space to set up.
The local Mens Shed now has near 100 members and is just starting to go into metal work and have been repairing garden equipment donated by a big hardwear retailer ( customer returns ) then donating them to pensioners.
They just got their first lathe this year, along with a bandsaw, cut off saw & surface grinder, all from an engineering workshop that closed down.
He gets a tax deduction for the full value of the gear which got written off against the income from the sale of the stuff people actually wanted.
Down here this is the only way wanna bees like me can get the training because TAFE will not enrol ameteures or hobbyists only apprentices so there is nowhere for silly old farts ( me ) to get training except with something like a Mens Shed.
Bike Beesa
Trevor

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Re: B50 - Reaming New Camshaft Bushes

Post by Jeff K » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:24 am

It is doable by yourself. But if you have never done it before, learning on your own motors is not a good idea. You can do some web searches and read up on reamers, so you will at least know the terms and Language when you are quizzing a shop on their abilities. Reamers can be solid or adjustable, tapered or straight, hand or chucking, HSS or carbide etc. Best to hit up a few of the old clubs, groups etc and see who they recommend.
Here in the USA, there are still a few shops around who know what they are doing. The old Sunnen bench honing machines are still fairly easy to find here and with ebay you could pick up the proper mandrel and stones to do the job your self. I picked up my 1st one a few years back for the B40 project for $200.00 with a lot of stones and mandrels. I have since spent another $200.00 on the sizes that I needed. It mostly gets used for honing valve guides anymore. I picked up another one a couple of years ago for $75.00.
This is what I am talking about:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SUNNEN-HONING- ... SwzsNcgqIO
Jeff

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